Episode 7 - Beyond the Forms: The Real Value of Qigong Conferences

00:00:00: Hello and welcome to a new episode from the Chigong Academy podcast.

00:00:04: Today we want to talk about conferences, specifically chigong conferences.

00:00:09: on why should you go there?

00:00:11: And which conferences are out there?

00:00:14: What is our experience?

00:00:15: So John what's your story?

00:00:18: Your experience going into chigon conference?

00:00:22: I know that you've had a speech here as well.

00:00:25: so yeah Go on!

00:00:30: We don't have many conferences going on in the UK.

00:00:33: So generally, it's something that I have to go abroad for.

00:00:37: and this first thing That i find is just amazing Is you suddenly realize how different Qigong In every single country that You Go To Every Single Group of People Interact with It Differently And THAT IS SO VALUEBLE!

00:00:56: My experience around teaching Qigung.

00:01:00: I'm either running my own classes or going to familiar classes, and it kind of turns into a weird echo chamber where you just hear the same things over again.

00:01:13: And nothing really challenges you!

00:01:17: If Qigong is about freedom and creating space and unlocking what's stuck within I think you need to be willing to be challenged.

00:01:26: Now if i'm going out to conferences, it's just this beautiful experience of understanding all these people who've got such a vast understanding but completely different perspective and the ability for us to share ideas work together in those spaces is so rich!

00:01:52: It's important that we have opportunities.

00:01:57: What is the most challenging aspect you faced when you go to a conference like that?

00:02:05: I'm really not a fan of hierarchies, they have no relevance.

00:02:16: You know...I remember being at a conference a few years ago and there was one highly regarded teachers who was ignoring everybody because he was highly regarded.

00:02:30: Nobody, no one's worth talking to other than a few select people and you're just like.

00:02:38: that is not the nature of the practice.

00:02:41: You've only got.

00:02:42: go back.

00:02:43: obviously I'm very specifically talking from a Genang perspective here... ...you'd hear over again Peng say in all documents letters teaching, no hierarchy.

00:02:54: Everybody is your student everybody's your teacher.

00:02:59: you know that there should be an ability for us to listen to each other and I think it's such a shame because conferences can turn into sales pitches.

00:03:11: oh indeed!

00:03:12: And when it turns into a sales pitch then the person who's selling you something has And then after a while, you tend to find the brittle ego of the teacher or the guru.

00:03:31: The person who has to be more important because that's part of their sale strategy which again is not Qigong!

00:03:40: Yeah it's just like creating kind-of show on stage where people book tickets for your show.

00:03:48: Look at me I can set fire with my chi.

00:03:53: Yeah, great.

00:03:54: That's kind of yeah we're recording this in the middle of a drought and it's really dry around here.

00:04:00: so I'd rather not talk to you at the moment.

00:04:01: You might start for hands.

00:04:04: There is no practical application

00:04:10: Interesting.

00:04:11: Okay What is your nicest experience like?

00:04:14: And why is maybe beneficial For everybody To go into these type Of conference Where people who are into Qigong Or even not?

00:04:23: Yeah, of course.

00:04:25: Okay so for me I have like stand-up moments that stick in my head and it's mainly with the German Association And there are times there especially when everybody is engaged in something together.

00:04:41: That isn't necessarily Qigong.

00:04:43: Um...I find to be a really powerful place.

00:04:48: I think that quite often when we, and i've seen this over and over again through the years.

00:04:53: That if you take a group of people who say right?

00:04:55: We're now going to practice body-mind form or be gonna practise lift you up put your down You can spot The People in the room are going.

00:05:02: oh!

00:05:02: I know This...I'm good at this.. I'm Going To Stand There At The Front.

00:05:07: No And You Can Spot The People Who Are Going.

00:05:10: Oh!

00:05:11: I Don't Know This One.

00:05:11: Or Im Not Very Good At It.

00:05:12: I'm Gonna Stand At The Back.

00:05:17: You can kind of see that wave of separation happening.

00:05:23: And it's such a shame, the times that doesn't happen are really valuable.

00:05:29: so when you get groups of people together and everybody is going I don't know...I've never done this before i'm just engaged in it again.

00:05:40: it strips out the hierarchy strip at ego everyone.

00:05:44: You know, it could be sound work.

00:05:46: It could be breathwork or walking practice Anything like that.

00:05:51: isn't about being a performing monkey.

00:05:56: Remember the workshop at your place?

00:05:59: Oh!

00:06:02: The one you had everyone crawling around in the grass.

00:06:05: Yeah I've still got photos.

00:06:13: No don't go this way.

00:06:15: Yeah, see your point.

00:06:17: So can you say that is a place where you could challenge yourself if you want to?

00:06:23: To ask yourself and your patterns what are doing like maybe If you don't know the practice going in first row That people can see because you're proud of yourself or whatever it would be here And then open start new practice.

00:06:43: Yeah, absolutely.

00:06:44: And if somebody says oh we're gonna practice this and you feel yourself going Oh I know this one!

00:06:48: i'll go to the front then notice that You've done it have some degree of awareness Of what's actually happening?

00:06:59: Um...and you don't need To beat yourself up about It..you Don't need to judge Yourself About it....You don't Need to be harsher on your self but please act with Some Awareness of What's Going On because otherwise you're not really doing, You might be good at the movement but your certainly not going to Chigong.

00:07:21: If if you talk about being skilful with your energy?

00:07:23: If your energy is all about self promotion and how look How Good I Am At This And Look How Well i can perform that Is That Chigon?

00:07:34: I'm Not Convinced It Is!

00:07:35: I Think That's Performance.

00:07:39: No Point I Would Say.

00:07:42: But

00:07:43: Should You Stay also at the location when you're at this type of conference.

00:07:51: Oh, I've always valued that!

00:07:56: Why?

00:07:57: Um...I

00:08:00: think it's important to be-

00:08:04: Because there are retreats isn't it?

00:08:06: Yeah

00:08:06: um

00:08:09: i think definitely on.

00:08:10: retreat is kind of important to being there.

00:08:13: When we used to run long retreat in UK I remember one of the teachers having a conversation with us saying we need to hold the chief field twenty four hours a day.

00:08:22: We need to be here for that whole time because when you go into retreat work, you can going too strong or worked people and they can have stronger reactions than they can.

00:08:32: every actions at any point so unique be there for them.

00:08:38: So if your doing retreat not multiple-day workshop.

00:08:41: i mean retreat say this difference between those

00:08:45: if you don't differentiate everyone.

00:08:48: um okay a workshop is just like Today.

00:08:53: we're going to learn this and tomorrow, I'm gonna land that.

00:08:55: And then the next day We're going.

00:08:56: put it all together of me turned into this and then on the last they were going out for a party Being slightly mean but you know That to me is his workshop where as retreat?

00:09:11: It's absolutely in the name or a treat is somewhere way You withdraw and your withdrawal into The practice.

00:09:18: so retreat is going to be longer periods of practice.

00:09:22: there's going less sense of structured progression through the days.

00:09:28: It's a space in which you come back into yourself, I always like there to be a degree of quietness within retreat so that you can withdraw and notice your patterns.

00:09:43: So all of these are part of retreat as opposed to workshop And those places.

00:09:48: when working in that way When really exploring true power people need support, so you have to be there for them and they have to.

00:09:58: So yeah, on retreat you have to be there.

00:10:19: if we're in a multiple day workshop and the accommodation is spread out.

00:10:23: The accommodation has spread out that's not a problem And in conference I'd say it's kind of much the same but conference feels It feels more about everybody being together.

00:10:36: Then work shop feels like every body following the structure.

00:10:40: so i'd say In the greater scheme of things its more important for us To be staying onsite at Conference than a multiple-day workshop, in order to get the most from it.

00:10:52: Well which conferences are you talking about?

00:10:55: Don't just generalize that because I personally know the German Ginectical Association conference.

00:11:03: Yeah this is one that sits like... That's really prominent for me Just because its something i've found very powerful.

00:11:14: We have another coming up next week over at The Netherlands.

00:11:17: I've never done a conference in the Netherlands.

00:11:19: I'm curious to see what that's like, iIm really excited about it because... ...i feel kind of deeply uncomfortable about it!

00:11:28: You know?

00:11:29: l-l know my flight turns up and l haven't got time t get from the airport to th-to the Conference Centre before it starts.

00:11:35: so.. ..i know im gonna be arriving late.

00:11:38: l know when l get there theres going ot be nobody to meet me cos they're all gunna be in a session.

00:11:42: Um.. l know tha l m gon have to kinda integrate quietly on the background, l know you kno But other than that, I know nothing.

00:11:49: And that to me is really exciting because it means that I'm walking into a completely fresh situation and how we'll be learning right from the start when you do online conference work?

00:12:00: We've been involved in these before as well.

00:12:04: there's something about people who just turn up In order to Do their bit and never listen to anything else.

00:12:11: That's happening.

00:12:11: um...we did.

00:12:15: uh i did A conference earlier in The year for acupuncturists And there was one of the guys who turned up, you knew that he'd rocked-up just to do his bit and he's leaving straight away afterwards because... There is no continuity.

00:12:30: No referencing other things happening.

00:12:33: There wasn't fitting in or taking people from this place into this place.

00:12:38: it was like I've arrived now listen to me cause i'm important here my book.

00:12:43: i am selling a big stack by myself.

00:12:49: You know you get all kinds of different things.

00:12:52: I think the conferences that are very powerful, they're ones actually give your time to be together as a group and gives lots of people an opportunity to stand up in lead And have great conversations learn from each other.

00:13:06: That sounds not like typical implication for word conference.

00:13:16: People who like the same hobby come together and hang out together.

00:13:21: Yeah, yeah I'd say that's oh.

00:13:26: That is a good way for it to be And it's okay to have like prominent speakers there and people are going to come in express their opinion But actually they are broadly irrelevant Within the conference.

00:13:39: The conference to me the quality of the conferences about the people there at interactions and the being in this space with other people who as you just said, passionate about that same thing.

00:13:52: That's where the magic happens!

00:13:54: So therefore makes sense to sleep at their location if it is possible?

00:13:59: To me... You could be these type of people.

00:14:02: Yeah..to me yes And y'know If somebody is I think last one we did out there was a speaker.

00:14:11: he turned up for his things however many days it was.

00:14:18: And you kind of felt that he'd just missed out?

00:14:24: I think being there is really the important thing.

00:14:28: Yeah, remember the evening singing session and on fire session like that which is through native original came together.

00:14:40: places as human beings right

00:14:43: yeah And you haven't got to join in, but just be there.

00:14:52: Without the context of we work or have this official kind of lens where before lunch We talk about that and their topic on them There is better than speaker.

00:15:07: our lunchtime out-of-let scope right like Before bedtime kind of scopey things are.

00:15:13: even in the morning The official part starts.

00:15:17: Yeah, yeah and it could be that there's been somebody who has run a session And its been massively impactful... ...and people are still talking about her.

00:15:27: But It Could Be That Somebody Has Done A Session.. ..And It Kind Of Worked In The Moment.

00:15:31: Then Its Forgotten And Its Passed And Thats Also Perfect!

00:15:36: Yeah I remember the Dragon Dalian Session You Gave Last Year?

00:15:41: What was last year?

00:15:42: I guess last year Outside in front of the building and everybody just was dragging all the time.

00:15:51: Yeah, yeah!

00:15:51: And

00:15:54: then once you come out a bit... You turn around to someone who wasn't there saying oh I was a dragon.

00:15:59: they were like okay right bye

00:16:02: At least when your leave for conference coming home

00:16:08: There's some experiences that are just in the moment They just arise and pass

00:16:13: when you should not go to this type of conference?

00:16:20: I think that the only point, i would say is if your concern about going You know this trip that I'm doing next week There's the whole traveling and getting there.

00:16:54: There's a way in which i get there, all of the stuff going on.

00:16:59: Now to me...I've got a level of- I don't what the hell is gonna happen about it but The level of..i dont' know whats gonna happend , i find to be quite exciting now ..i know other people who if they were in similar situation They'd find overwhelming.

00:17:16: And in that situation, that's probably not the best thing.

00:17:21: You don't want to be overwhelmed by even the thought of it.

00:17:27: but I think there is also something about how soon should you get involved with this type things and really getting into them?

00:17:38: just experiencing at any point if your interested enough for a week end Why wouldn't you go and spend a weekend with people of similar interest?

00:17:51: No point, I would say.

00:17:54: But yeah there are other things...I've been invited to stuff out in countries that cost an awful lot more get-to than China or places like that before And for me personally just the financial costs The time commitment means it's not practical.

00:18:18: So, you know it needs to be practical for you do as well.

00:18:27: What is your title?

00:18:28: Because I know that you will talk on the Dutch conference.

00:18:35: so what's a title?

00:18:36: I

00:18:38: was thinking what, yeah.

00:18:40: When people... when i've got involved in these things and they say What is your title?

00:18:44: Sometimes it means- What do you want to be known as?

00:18:48: You know, Master?

00:18:50: No go away!

00:18:51: That's the English problem

00:18:54: of

00:18:54: a keynote you bring with

00:18:56: me.

00:18:57: Oh no this time we're talking about making Qigong accessible.

00:19:03: Does that mean you flattened the ground or...?

00:19:08: I think that in brief terms, most people who get involved with Qigong at the moment are already interested in QigONG and that's why they're getting involved.

00:19:21: They've come across it somewhere – that is what they do or have heard about it!

00:19:29: It feels as if there was a barrier for people to access it?

00:19:35: And i think its interesting.

00:19:37: And can we take the barrier away or build a bridge so that people could engage with it without feeling they need to go into class involving learning complex form.

00:19:56: Can you do this without diminishing what Jigong actually is?

00:20:03: My sense is, I'm really interested in this area But I think it has to be done with a degree of understanding that, sometimes we see...I mean i was seeing something about someone locally who's teaching a yoga qigong class and you're going- I don't know the person.

00:20:31: I've never spent time with them but the question thats immediately in my head is Is It Doing Both A Disservice By Smushing Them Together?

00:20:42: And I think that when you make it simple, You can rip the heart out of something and turn into... Look this is Qigong because i wear these clothes.

00:20:54: That's not qigong.

00:20:56: The same as yoga isn't about the clothes or colour of your mat.

00:21:02: We need to do in such a way.

00:21:05: It maintains the heart And it creates a solid enough building block for people then want to go and explore more.

00:21:13: Um, and it doesn't make them go oh no It's just boring.

00:21:19: Okay.

00:21:19: so like I can these three movements do?

00:21:23: That's done.

00:21:24: okay i Can do that.

00:21:25: i'm a master of chigong or yoga whatever.

00:21:28: Yeah yeah yeah i remember years ago i was asked to go in um.

00:21:35: There was a company locally who is doing kind of.

00:21:39: They had a contract to do health and well-being within the Health Service in the UK.

00:21:42: And I went along, and I saw the main man... ...and he turned around me then said oh you do Qigong?

00:21:48: He said I know all about Qigung!

00:21:51: That was just like.

00:21:53: okay sorry that's the wrong thing to say to me because my immediate reaction was.. ..I've been studying it twenty odd years.

00:21:59: i don't know all About It.

00:22:00: come on tell Me

00:22:02: have You done that?

00:22:04: yeah i did.

00:22:04: i didn't get The Job But I wouldn't have wanted to get the job.

00:22:10: I don't want to work with somebody who's turning around saying, oh yeah!

00:22:13: i know all about it.

00:22:14: Yeah you understand?

00:22:17: You know...I want to look at people that are curious and interested here on a constant process of learning

00:22:25: which isn't something like..that only wants to work for those who know less about Qigong.

00:22:31: right It is about connection or curiosity.

00:22:38: Yeah, I'm working with open people right in general just over

00:22:42: yeah.

00:22:44: It's always to me it is Always about the conversation?

00:22:47: That was what we learned from each other.

00:22:50: You know i really want To Know What that crossover Is between yoga and shigong because i don't know anything About yoga And The more People who've done both the More interested In it i get.

00:23:00: you know.

00:23:00: well what is it that sits Between these two?

00:23:03: Because my sense is that We're its Different Paths to the same destination.

00:23:08: So what does your path look like?

00:23:09: It doesn't mean that I need to go and walk everybody's paths.

00:23:13: I'm actually interested in the destination, but to be so single-minded that i block out everybody else's perspective also isn't Qigong?

00:23:21: it's not aware...it is blinkered!

00:23:24: its unaware.

00:23:26: we should have the openness to have these conversations And maybe they don't happen at conference because everyone's so Qigong focused,

00:23:35: I try to wrap that up and say okay.

00:23:37: That's a nice way to come back to our main topic.

00:23:40: but yeah Okay Yeah, it is my experience.

00:23:44: It's really great way to connect with people and you will know which people want to connect or not.

00:23:51: Especially when People Say Come on Join us On Our Table To Have Breakfast With Us Or Something Then these type of people are normally the right people in my understanding.

00:24:03: And it's just, yeah like a gift to meet these types of people especially people from different countries, different perspectives with different narratives as well even combination with Qigong.

00:24:17: so...

00:24:19: Yeah absolutely

00:24:20: Just for good food?

00:24:23: Well you say that I remember Going back to the last one in Germany.

00:24:28: There was a guy there from Poland who had absolutely no English.

00:24:31: I don't think he had much German either.

00:24:35: And and I have,I Have pretty much No German.

00:24:40: i can understand words here on their.

00:24:42: but we got partnered In something.

00:24:45: We just had The most amazing experience.

00:24:47: because Why?

00:24:47: It...we Just Had the Most Amazing Experience Because We Couldn'T Talk To Each Other We couldn't make sense of what each other was saying.

00:24:55: So we just had to be together and follow the best that could happen.

00:25:01: And at the end, there's a connection between us.

00:25:06: It is somehow very special The fact that we've done it without words.

00:25:12: Those types of experiences They're just gold, they are absolutely gold.

00:25:19: Was this person who ran Chigong Academy in Poland?

00:25:23: Yes

00:25:28: Yeah, yeah lovely.

00:25:29: Lovely I would say we wrap that up.

00:25:32: We hit the almost be the thirty minutes and minutes mark.

00:25:35: And uh, yeah if you want to come to the Dutch conference?

00:25:40: we link some Stuff too two that way in The show notes and we invite You To Come Along.

00:25:47: John Will Speak There and um, yeah i Would Say thank you for Listening Thank You For Watching and See and Listen.

00:25:55: you or you will listen next week to the podcast.