Episode 4 - The Nature of Healing

00:00:00: Welcome to Chigong Academy podcast.

00:00:02: Today we talk about the nature of healing, so you brought up that topic John.

00:00:08: what do you mean?

00:00:08: About The Nature Of Healing?

00:00:13: It's kind of one of those bits that keeps coming out for me.

00:00:17: I think That the concept of healing is something isn't particularly well understood And i think a lot people get into chigung for healing but There's all kinds of questions that come up here from me.

00:00:30: So for example, if you come in order to get healing from a particular situation and it gets healed what do you then?

00:00:41: You're healthy...and happy

00:00:44: Yeah!

00:00:44: And then you bugger off and

00:00:45: carry

00:00:47: on.

00:00:47: Then sometimes maybe the worst case..you go again into Chigong world and say I searched for healing.

00:00:55: Yeah, I mean there's stories from the Khaja Centre.

00:00:59: The videos of the tumours shrinking... Well what are they?

00:01:04: They're the ultrasounds of the of the Tumours getting smaller that have kind of been quoted left right and centre.

00:01:10: when you speak to people who were at the centre at the time What you find is quite often saying yeah but that particular person got rid of a tumour But then the tumour Okay well the phrase used was they returned their colourful lifestyle And the tumour came back and they died.

00:01:29: I'm kind of endlessly curious what a colourful lifestyle is in that scenario, but... But the point is it wasn't a healing.

00:01:38: It was a removal of a symptom.

00:01:40: Yeah.

00:01:41: A removal of the tumours The underlying thing which caused it to grow were still present and the roots are obviously very deep so it came back more rigorously.

00:01:52: So that isn't actually healing That's suppression of symptoms.

00:01:56: It's like taking a pill for or like a painkiller.

00:02:00: Yeah, yeah You know it's like a haircut.

00:02:08: No that's really crap analogy isn't?

00:02:10: I was going to say the hairs gonna carry on growing?

00:02:12: well mine does is just yeah.

00:02:17: Sorry please ignore me crappy crap analogy.

00:02:19: but yet if you're the idea is that healing?

00:02:23: Is removal of symptom a

00:02:24: healing?".

00:02:25: And my sense is, no it isn't.

00:02:29: But you can also see... Oh!

00:02:31: It's absolutely part of that but That's not really what its about.

00:02:39: Most people will come into Qigong because there are something specific they want to address within their lives.

00:02:46: There're some things specific.

00:02:47: They'll look in for quite the specific healing And then once the tumour's gone, Once the problem or symptom that they arrived with has disappeared.

00:03:02: What happens?

00:03:03: Then does healing stop?

00:03:11: Is it an ongoing process to get ill again?

00:03:16: I think my sense is all part of a cycle but yeah... If we use the term healing, what we should actually be doing is defining healing as a return to health.

00:03:39: So in that scenario then we have to go right?

00:03:43: What do you mean by Health?

00:03:45: because Health We can look out on a physical basis.

00:03:49: so if something isn't working physically it's very easy to go.

00:03:53: oh I'm healed once The Physical Healing Is Done.

00:03:56: but what about the mental aspect of it?

00:04:01: what about the emotional health side of it?

00:04:03: What about the healthy relationships with self and other, what about their relationship to environment.

00:04:12: All these are part of this web that is necessary to unravel if we want to appreciate.

00:04:22: a truly balanced state should be a return to health, but it isn't just physical health.

00:04:30: It should be emotional health mental Health healthy relationships you know?

00:04:35: It should Be all of this But it gets polarized into very specific areas.

00:04:41: Yeah like the mess Western medicine right.

00:04:44: Hmm yeah

00:04:46: Okay What is your approach on what?

00:04:49: how would you describe in detail and You mentioned the area's but how Would you say its nature Of healing in a kind of approach how you can self heal yourself every day, kind off.

00:05:06: Yeah

00:05:07: I think that we need to if we change the framing of healing so it's not removal or symptom because That is kind of a backward focus.

00:05:20: You're going to check How far you've gone by seeing?

00:05:26: on a sports event and seeing how far you ran already.

00:05:32: But not the distance between the goal in yourself, right?

00:05:36: That's it!

00:05:38: As well as crap is yours...

00:05:41: No I think that's perfect analogy.

00:05:43: You know It's the sprinter who isn't looking at finish line.

00:05:47: They're looking back to starting line hoping they get finished line.

00:05:50: Um..it kind of stupid.

00:05:56: So yeah, I think we need to maintain that forward vision and We need to recognize the every day.

00:06:03: Everything is changing everything.

00:06:04: Is evolving?

00:06:05: Everything is moving every single Day.

00:06:07: so therefore if you come in with a same intention To overcome the same problem every single day The one thing that it's consistent is the problem That your having a fight With now thats not healing Thats Having A Fight With A Problem.

00:06:24: We then need to go, right.

00:06:25: How do I do that?

00:06:26: Um...I like the idea that a nice way to work with it is That you can actually come from point of awareness.

00:06:34: You can notice how things feel on a given day.

00:06:39: so the symptom The um physical discomfort the mental anguish the Emotional upheaval whatever It Is that your noticing On that Day isn't Actually the thing that you Need To get rid Of.

00:06:55: That's the.

00:06:55: that's like, The doorway you can walk through to see what's behind it.

00:07:02: We shouldn't ignore the symptom.

00:07:04: we've got a start somewhere.

00:07:05: It is the start line of the race for To try and weave back into that analogy.

00:07:12: not sure if this will work.

00:07:13: Um...It-it's the Start point And need that Start Point.

00:07:17: But actually..We also need to recognize that we Need move away from the Start Point not with the intention of looking back at it, but would be intentional moving forward.

00:07:26: So this symptom is the experience that we actually start to work with that we can then move on from.

00:07:32: Okay when you experienced a symptom.

00:07:37: Is he then like your red flag?

00:07:40: You've overseen all the time till you reach the yeah The state off the red flag that you see it right now, or is it hanging there directly in front of your eyes?

00:07:55: Or was it earlier at that I would say sprint visible for you.

00:08:03: And can you train the way that all the awareness?

00:08:10: Well, this

00:08:18: is making me think of something and I'm not sure it's the answer to that question.

00:08:21: So please tell me if i've dragged this away somewhere.

00:08:25: My relationship with Shigong has never been about self-healing.

00:08:31: That's never been my primary experience over.

00:08:34: so when I was going into the self healing work It felt slightly weird because it was like oh, I've got try find something that doesn't work.

00:08:44: So therefore what I'm looking for is if you kind of scale discomfort on a scale Of one to ten.

00:08:52: I was always looking for the eights and the nines Which part of me's like dysfunctional at an eight or nine?

00:08:59: Because iIwas looking For The difficulty when actually, the ones in the twos are just as relevant And it doesn't need To be something that has been there all week.

00:09:10: It could Be That Just In That Scenario You Can Feel Yourself Getting Frustrated About Something Or you can feel as just sitting, there's a part of that doesn't quite feel right.

00:09:20: It doesn't feel relaxed.

00:09:22: These could also be symptoms.

00:09:27: This kind sits really in the relational health side.

00:09:32: We tend to look inside isolation But actually if being within group or person means it raises things for ya You notice things that are different then that is also a symptom, you can work with.

00:09:54: So if your at the amazing conference and there's person up on stage who are just sitting there going oh this crap!

00:10:03: That's a symptom.

00:10:05: You can work it or you could feed the symptoms And come out of the conference and moan about how crap that particular person was.

00:10:15: but actually thats your judgement.

00:10:21: Yeah, true.

00:10:22: So yeah it doesn't need to be a big overblown experience.

00:10:26: or you know suddenly growing a third leg of your arm falling off... It doesn't have to be dramatic!

00:10:35: When do you relate that?

00:10:37: I would say when is there even the difference between them apart from you?

00:10:49: Or is that apart from another person?

00:10:52: Like projecting emotions or something.

00:10:56: When do you feel it's yours, not yours?

00:11:06: Okay this one there are a few answers to me but sit within.

00:11:11: I think every reaction we have in relation too So it could be in relation to our narrative about ourselves, or a belief of another person.

00:11:24: Or the concept that polite behaviour can be and what acceptable conduct is... Everything's always in relation with something.

00:11:35: The only thing we actually have control over are ourselves but our response is always in relationship too!

00:11:48: So, um

00:11:50: so if you're the person who's projecting and saying to Person B. I would say a b person be something And person beat doesn't say anything but feelings.

00:12:01: and then the energy which is there it just the relation.

00:12:05: two The same from person A right?

00:12:08: It's both for both.

00:12:10: persons are just experience in their narrative fed world With their beliefs and they're yeah overall feelings, and so on.

00:12:24: Yeah there were the worlds but it's just always a relation to you.

00:12:27: So you can't not communicate.

00:12:31: Yeah I think You could say is the difference between having an argument in any conversation?

00:12:38: You've got two parties who aren't listening to each other who are just shouting at each other And and it's not going to get any better because all they're doing is shouting at each other.

00:12:48: Yeah, yeah That's the I'm not going you know?

00:12:52: I'm NOT going to accept your negative energy You know?

00:12:56: or you know i don't hang around with people who bring me down.

00:13:01: Actually The person isn't bringing you down.

00:13:05: you are giving that.

00:13:08: It's something that you're doing for yourself in that relationship.

00:13:12: Yeah, okay.

00:13:13: You let bring yourself down through your narrative in relation to an interaction with the person?

00:13:20: Yeah now it could be that particular conversation is just too much for you at the moment.

00:13:25: so therefore you need step away from them because there's too much stuff going on and they're...

00:13:33: That also a symptom right!

00:13:35: And immediately react in the phrase of self love to give yourself a little bit of space and go for your.

00:13:43: Yeah, absolutely you could.

00:13:45: You can step away And step away is not a problem.

00:13:49: But to block out Is to ignore The potential learning To Go.

00:13:53: At the moment I Can't really engage with this In A positive way.

00:13:58: So therefore i'm Not going to Engage it in a Positive Way.

00:14:02: It's completely Fair.

00:14:04: but to Block Out ignore the potential for learning that exists in that situation.

00:14:12: Which is the same, like your heart's stressed out and you're tired as hell but you drink I don't know a liter of coffee to push on?

00:14:23: Yeah it'd be the same right.

00:14:27: yeah i guess so!

00:14:28: It's kind of understanding when its healthy to continue...it's weird say choose your battles And sometimes it's just not worth having that happen.

00:14:45: Sometimes there'll be something that happens, I had a scenario recently where It was Just driving locally and Something happened Where my sense is.

00:14:57: the other person has been hugely unreasonable because they stopped in The middle of the road.

00:15:01: i live on A little country lane.

00:15:02: They stopped In the middle Of the road and started shouting at me for Driving too fast when i'd actually Stopped and i was like i don't understand what's going On here And it felt like really aggressive.

00:15:12: Um, and I you know for some reason that's still hanging around with me.

00:15:18: Oh interesting!

00:15:20: i couldn't...I couldn't fully move on in the moment I was able to actually deal with this in a way That we had an exchange and then I made sure It didn't escalate and I drove off.

00:15:32: but there is Still something there For Me.

00:15:34: I'd kind of Like To Meet The Person Again So That I Can Resolve It.

00:15:39: Do you have a coffee with the person and talk about why?

00:15:43: Yeah, yeah.

00:15:44: You know I think for everybody there will be these things that are just to a bit too much And that's fine.

00:15:52: But then if you also think about come back to the idea of is it an argument or discussion?

00:15:57: when it's a discussion You give space to actually listen to the other person.

00:16:03: You know we've come straight back into Toby seven habits, you know listening with the intent to understand Yeah.

00:16:12: And then that also, you know there's a piece in the eight phrases, huai jing nei jing respectful of the outside quieter on the inside.

00:16:21: to me this speaks for no judgment.

00:16:24: and yet we see these stuff out within the Qigong communities.

00:16:30: they are so heavily laden with judgement.

00:16:34: Judgment of you know, oh we need to stop this.

00:16:37: We need to create peace here.

00:16:38: We need do that.

00:16:39: We needed the other.

00:16:40: This is not the nature Of the practice?

00:16:43: This isn't in position of your perception of what a good result would be.

00:16:49: You're not taking time to listen to the situation.

00:16:52: What you doing as you are imposing your imposing your chi on a situation?

00:16:57: I have another comparison or even analogy.

00:17:01: Is it the same like going into this kind of Silicon Valley, optimize your day morning routine at five o'clock in the morning and then going for exercise.

00:17:12: Going that's still being in you're I don't know.

00:17:17: yeah daily life where it gets just get stressed out all the time but you're optimizing your hyped morning session that you have a kind of excuse than you can run on your hamster wheel?

00:17:34: I think that there is this.

00:17:36: We talk a bit about roles and quite lot of the Qigong we do will reinforce a particular role, so you know... That's exactly it!

00:17:46: You need to produce this much content or work for these goals.

00:17:54: This can be done with Qigongs but are they free?

00:17:58: No it isn't.

00:18:00: It holds in position that you feel need to be in, and there are positions.

00:18:07: it's fine.

00:18:11: This is also one of the bits I think... It's a practice that is laden

00:18:18: with

00:18:19: a sense where we want get as opposed to curiosity or lightness which is truly transformative within

00:18:34: When people want to start going through the way of self-healing, what would you recommend as a first three bits?

00:18:45: Okay.

00:18:47: I think one thing we need to observe is that when we come into a jigung practice and share in practice with others We have an experience there.

00:19:03: That space that we enter is a space.

00:19:05: There's always available to us.

00:19:08: Also when you're not into Qigong, but in your daily life as well right?

00:19:13: Yeah But in daily life it'll be rare that you experience that space.

00:19:17: So you come into a qigong class and you experienced that stage And you go.

00:19:21: oh this is different.

00:19:21: I haven't experienced this before.

00:19:24: so It means the.

00:19:25: instead of being in the normal over here hustle-and-bustle Of Daily Life We now You know In A Different I'm going to say headspace, but i don't like the term headspace because it's not headed.

00:19:37: It is its entire being and what that does Is?

00:19:42: It gives us the ability To know that we don't need to be stuck in these places.

00:19:47: So the first thing That i think is really helpful on that transformational or healing journey is to experience What it's like to Not have that busyness not Have not have all of that noise to see what it's like to actually be in That very relaxed, very supported state and doing that with other people means you are held In that State.

00:20:13: And its a beautiful space To Be in.

00:20:16: Doing It By Yourself is just Like Oh!

00:20:19: It Can't Be A Bit Much.

00:20:20: But Doing That With A Group Of People Means You can Just Get A Sense Of The Interconnectedness Of the Ease That Exists.

00:20:28: And then once you've achieved that in that space, the question is how can I find more of that?

00:20:34: In my daily life.

00:20:37: Because... ...the issues that tend to manifest in difficulties and blockages.

00:20:45: The answers to me You could possibly find them in practice But actually are more likely to spot it by applying a practice back into daily lives.

00:20:57: So if there were three things explore that space in a held area.

00:21:04: The second one is become curious, stop holding onto things so tightly hold them lightly and look at the go all okay?

00:21:14: And then the third piece is take that curiosity to take that lightness of holding an apply it back into your everyday life.

00:21:20: you can carry on doing other thing she ever wanted to do but they no longer control you.

00:21:27: you controlled him.

00:21:31: yeah ok let's resonate slack.

00:21:35: the space in your daily life for myself is like, you've told me listen to the birds and do the birds listen to you.

00:21:45: Because I experience at my side or with myself... Do they listen to me?

00:21:54: Can they read my minds?

00:21:57: Am i loud right now?

00:21:59: Something like that!

00:21:59: And then you're in a completely different way of observing them

00:22:05: And they're always aware of you.

00:22:12: They are watching.

00:22:16: That's an interesting thing, yeah!

00:22:19: Oh that became dark all of a sudden didn't it?

00:22:21: Yeah

00:22:22: absolutely!

00:22:24: Now wait...that is an interesting question.

00:22:29: What do we recommend as maybe one step for non-Chikongle person?

00:22:37: Okay, if you've never practiced jigun before there are There's kind of a shape that happens within the Jigun practice and so The first thing to do is be able to start that shape.

00:22:50: And the first step is relax body relaxed mind.

00:23:01: It's an interesting one in sports because I work with quite a few sports people who will turn around say i can't meditate and then you say, but what do you think?

00:23:11: What's your mind doing when you're

00:23:12: training?".

00:23:16: And the answer tends to be oh if I'm out on a bike or for run it is kind of nothing.

00:23:22: It looks like run!

00:23:23: Run!

00:23:26: Well yeah...it depends..I guess that If You are Doing Sprints Then....you know.....You Are Quite Focused.

00:23:31: But......I Think There Is An Ability For The Mind To Relax Even When The Body Isn't And that, I think it's an interesting state as is the state where the body relaxes when the mind isn't.

00:23:46: But if you can bring those two together then you have something really powerful.

00:23:53: so That Is The First Thing.

00:23:55: Can You Relax?

00:23:56: How Quickly Can You Relax and Relax Not Collapse.

00:24:01: Okay Most People Will Hear Relax Says i'm Gonna Sit On My Big Comfy Sofa Doom scroll or I'm going to listen music.

00:24:09: Or i'm gonna watch.

00:24:10: that's not relaxed.

00:24:11: That's collapse and distract.

00:24:13: All right, let's throw in an example.

00:24:16: don't forget what you want to say.

00:24:17: maybe it may be helps a lot for the listeners.

00:24:20: um I was unmoving and transporting a wash machine From the ground into the second floor And who is aware really?

00:24:28: Really yeah small stay away room I would say and I needed to hold the washing machine almost but just by myself.

00:24:37: for just like a restructure of the element, we transported it and was in first floor or something.

00:24:46: It's really heavy but my body wasn't relaxed at all!

00:24:50: But I could go into this kind-of mind state where i was just relaxed... but he still felt very tight and hold that thing.. And that helped me to bypass time span of two minutes?

00:25:06: And that was like, oh wow.

00:25:08: So long I can take that.

00:25:09: Wow!

00:25:10: Was it pressed?

00:25:11: and the other way around like stressful air ports or something.

00:25:15: your body is basically relaxed but you're mind's like okay where passes security chain?

00:25:20: whatever control then just a deep breath out could help right?

00:25:26: It's not what you describing.

00:25:28: Yeah yeah its recognising because the scenario with washing machine What you're doing is your.

00:25:37: to me, You're not having a fight with the washing machine.

00:25:41: They were just standing there with the Washing Machine.

00:25:44: Yeah Which isn't which has a more relaxed state?

00:25:47: Um, you know when you're in the queue at security check and an airport You know Are you just in a queue of the security check or are you have enough fight with yourself as to how am I gonna do this?

00:25:59: How am i going?

00:26:01: There's kind of a weird.

00:26:02: so II get a weird sense of guilt When I go up to the security checks.

00:26:06: I can feel myself going, oh no.

00:26:07: What are they gonna catch me doing?

00:26:10: And noticing that is fascinating because then i can release it... ...because now noticed it and so we need to notice the tensions so that we can relax back from the tension.

00:26:30: How you would describe the process of letting go when Recognized the thinking or the behavior, whatever.

00:26:40: How can you say okay I let it go?

00:26:42: how Can You do that?

00:26:44: um i can only speak from a personal point of view on this.

00:26:48: Um...I kind Of have to laugh at myself On regular occasions Generally quietly Because most people look at me funny just suddenly Sniggering for no reason.

00:27:04: but I think that we can notice ourselves holding onto something and We need to have a mechanism by which.

00:27:10: We can stop holding on to it so tightly.

00:27:14: And for me, It's kind of laugh at myself Come on Stop it.

00:27:21: It's Kind Of That Sense

00:27:23: Okay?

00:27:25: That Works Really Well For The Mental Aspect Not So Much For the Physical Aspect Because Physical Tension It's a different thing.

00:27:39: The bit that springs to mind for physical tension is kind of the idea, it stands like a bear.

00:27:49: or take on that ability to actually instead of standing with tension stand with softness but immense power.

00:28:04: and so that works well from me.

00:28:06: But that's probably a reflection on the situations I find myself in.

00:28:10: My physicality, my gender blah blah blah everything means you know stand like a bear kind of makes sense to me as a technique for let go of physical tension but allow yourself still be strong whereas other people may align with different ideas in this area.

00:28:31: Yeah yeah i mean a bear looks almost always relaxed because he's so massive and don't have to fear something else or it just wandering around very relaxed.

00:28:49: It is a really interesting question though, the bear forms that come from China.

00:28:53: you wonder how many of them are based on pandas?

00:28:56: That

00:28:58: was supposed to be the big grizzly bear.

00:29:03: It

00:29:05: could be, yeah.

00:29:09: But isn't it strange that as a Westerner when we do bear form... We tend to think of the big bears but probably in China was the panda?

00:29:20: Yeah!

00:29:23: Maybe you should consider taking the teddy bear.

00:29:28: That's an interesting thing and same like the narrative again right?

00:29:34: a strong killer bear.

00:29:38: Yeah, interesting cool

00:29:40: yeah but it's always going to be that you need to find the image or the idea that works for you.

00:29:46: so if the bears are used to a teddy bear... That might work for ya!

00:29:54: But you may have found more relevant animal to relate to and sense of being which maintains maintain strength, but also it embraces relaxation.

00:30:07: Yeah maybe just observing an animal I have the chance to observe horses quite near.

00:30:14: so um It's really interesting how they relax themselves How they stand and move them.

00:30:20: You can see their muscles very in detail when they move.

00:30:23: So its really interesting.

00:30:25: yeah cool down after a run or so

00:30:32: big, relaxed creatures are amazing

00:30:34: aren't they?

00:30:35: Totally.

00:30:35: Like the dinosaurs not go this way

00:30:38: yeah we're not going there.

00:30:41: oh yeah I guess we talked about a lot of things like your feeling any words from you.

00:30:49: We kind of bounced around all over the show though.

00:30:51: um i think if we come back to the concept of healing...I think just to revisit that one and I'm kind of still amused by your analogy, running the sprinting race while looking at the start line.

00:31:09: And i think that just having that ability to relax what we spoke about To enhance your awareness approach with curiosity also in a more relaxed state is key to unlock so much.

00:31:31: Yeah, to me that's the bit I'm kind of going yeah.

00:31:33: That is what we spoke about but probably got distracted along the way and too much avoidance for judgement.

00:31:45: But i think thats a whole other episode about self-diagnosis.

00:31:51: the negative and potentially positive things, these are all aspects that sit within healthy.

00:32:04: And I think we need to hold on of those quite lightly as well.

00:32:06: so yeah i probably should have a chat about it another time.

00:32:10: Sounds like next week or even after?

00:32:14: We'll continue just chatting around and publishing.

00:32:19: Absolutely

00:32:20: Alright.

00:32:20: thank you very much for listening and watching, have a good day.

00:32:25: Good night or good morning!

00:32:27: And see you next time.