Episode 3 - Beyond Form: The River of Qigong

00:00:00: Hello and welcome to Zhigong Academy podcast episode three.

00:00:05: Today we have the honor of interviewing Ping Dijie, she's a Zhigang teacher from Germany originally from China.

00:00:14: so yeah I will enjoy it!

00:00:16: I wish you wonderful listening and watching.

00:00:19: Anyway is good question what does the meaning of Qigong practice?

00:00:26: One way it's good to practice very intensively because um, you get a certain healing effect or do want build up your own Qi.

00:00:38: Or make progress if needed.

00:00:41: You need some time for deepening but actually this is just from the beginning.

00:00:51: in case you need ready-to-get a lot of Qi to help yourselves here.

00:01:01: But in another way, the practice of daily life every day finds its own ways is also much more important because my understanding it's like a really good deepening into this practice and you do need to practice in daily lives.

00:01:24: It's very important And even better, if you don't have the idea I'm doing a practice.

00:01:32: But actually your are going to practice.

00:01:35: this is the best.

00:01:36: so you You don't that?

00:01:38: Don't have definition which is practice Which it's not and all the way you do is Dometically naturally follow the rule or follows at all.

00:01:48: This most beautiful practice.

00:01:51: of course in the process It's also a way to go.

00:01:56: I think it's really interesting because, what we tend to see is the strict practice.

00:02:03: It's learn movements follow their form and don't so often hear about a bit that comes after it.

00:02:13: And i think its probably sensible when you dont' hear of the bit that come after it.

00:02:17: cause ive met alot people in my time with jigong who've kind of been to one qigong class and then gone, I am going to invent my own form with Qigong.

00:02:27: And...and..I think you need to do the work To understand what the work is.

00:02:33: so i think it's really important to have those structures at the front.

00:02:37: but uh But....i think that to get stuck in thinking thats all It Is!

00:02:43: I don't Think That That Um...And Im Not Saying Any Of Us Here Think That But I Think That Its Almost A Trap.

00:02:52: It's like I can remember years ago learning a form and then practicing it every morning For about six months, and it was a complex for me took over an hour to go through the form And there was one day.

00:03:05: I was out in the garden Then i'd been practising diligently for almost an hour-and-a-half?

00:03:10: And I finished.

00:03:11: that went.

00:03:12: What's the point of this?

00:03:15: all its done is made me think i'm good at doing this form.

00:03:19: It hasn't given me anything other than made me think I'm good at Qigong.

00:03:25: And i think it's a trap that we can fall into?

00:03:31: Yes, um...I think the question is in which kind of situation you are doing.

00:03:36: yeah for example if you're doing an education and The goal to teach this form in the future Of course You need to learn it strictly correct A theory and also the form certain time, intensively daily and to get experience about it.

00:03:58: But of course some this Qigong practice is not only the form.

00:04:02: you need also understand how to use a mind and how to feel the Qi or command together in certain qi state, Qigang state yeah?

00:04:11: This entirety.

00:04:13: you do that.

00:04:14: And then Yeah!

00:04:15: In these way ah You need to really practice and learn it in a strictly way.

00:04:22: But otherwise, if you are already experienced chigun practitioner and but your curiosity of a form here And then you learn it at the beginning.

00:04:40: Of course You follow the rules to practice to get understanding what is it?

00:04:46: To get feeling experience level maybe suddenly you understand.

00:04:55: Okay, this is it and that's why I need to practice in these ways.

00:05:02: This makes sense.

00:05:04: And then of this level Maybe You can get certain free term.

00:05:12: Yeah!

00:05:13: You Can Get Certain Free Then Use It In Flexible Where You Can Combine.

00:05:20: Yeah, it's always relative.

00:05:25: So you have to learn to walk and then try to run or sprint?

00:05:36: Where is the level when I can decide?

00:05:41: how much do we need to know?

00:05:45: Oh thanks for that!

00:05:49: It was a good question yes...

00:05:54: So I had a one-to-one this morning with the lady who has just come to me, who has stage four cancer and The question is how can you do something for somebody in that situation?

00:06:09: That gives them the ability to go and practice for themselves And get immediate benefit.

00:06:14: Um...and the answer To the question when you're working With somebody In that scenario Who's got A very definite thing thats happening that is causing all kinds of questions, all kind difficulties and challenges in their life.

00:06:33: Then the point you can give them something will be quite different to somebody who just wants a bit well-being.

00:06:42: or I think it depends on your life situation as a person.

00:06:51: but don't put a blanket line across.

00:06:54: And the other thing I think it's interesting here is that when you have people who've got experience of other practices, so like again The lady today has got a number of practices that she does.

00:07:10: So then the question as well.

00:07:11: Why why do you want to do Qigong?

00:07:15: You know isn't this just yet another practice and doesn't really serve you?

00:07:20: so maybe Then the interaction is not about doing qi gong It's about adding some depth to some of the other things that are going on within life.

00:07:28: But that's a very different thing to the people who come in and they want to learn Lift She Up, Poor She Down.

00:07:36: And I think if we look at what happened At The Hwaja Center it was A Very Different Culture.

00:07:43: It Was A Very different Way Of Being With Health Issues.

00:07:49: So The Structures That Worked There I Think They Would Work In The West If We Had The Time And The Inclination and the ability to do it.

00:08:01: But I don't think many people have got the time or inclination, of their ability to interact with Qigong that way.

00:08:07: so i think there's an interesting balance here.

00:08:14: yes true yeah And uh Yeah they are different situations also different goals for practice.

00:08:23: qigong yeah and according very individually.

00:08:27: background you know healthy background culture backgrounds etc.

00:08:34: And go back to Joe's question, how do you know if it is a really good work?

00:08:40: You can jump around.

00:08:43: Oh yeah!

00:08:46: If we are talking about the Qigong technique and the Qi feelings of course in certain times depends on how much talent To get go into this Qigong state, feel the Qi fill these entirety.

00:09:07: Some people can't get it very quickly some people not so quickly.

00:09:11: and also the movement here The body conditions are different And to learn the movements that talent is a little bit different Some kind of learned really quickly.

00:09:22: In this case anyway I think for Chun'en Qigung level one in general maybe you need three months or half years to get a yeah, basically experience.

00:09:39: To see now I can work little bit.

00:09:42: Yeah Maybe I kind of without listen to teachers guiding our city I can practice practice by myself and then I can feel the chi.

00:09:53: You know they're gonna get certain state.

00:09:59: It's a basic foundation to start, discover more.

00:10:07: And also Dr.

00:10:08: Fang said even this method is beginner level one but it's also shortcut directs the high very highest levels.

00:10:19: through these methods you can achieve on route of life and you can also transform the whole body, mind totally.

00:10:31: but not everybody has this kind of talent.

00:10:35: I only do these things then get everything yeah?

00:10:39: And if you really want to be sure which level i am maybe it's better talk with a teacher.

00:10:49: experience teacher on to see share And to hear the other's understanding of feedback, or teamwork from the open form is always good.

00:11:03: To communicate with others and share and ask for feedback ideas about each other.

00:11:13: When do you know that you can now start running?

00:11:19: What was this feeling?

00:11:21: Was it your experience while practicing, or in life especially.

00:11:27: And what was your decision of saying okay now I'm a teacher?

00:11:31: Now i can go yeah maybe to level two or three or whatsoever

00:11:39: and

00:11:39: John you will get the same question

00:11:43: also What's the meaning of wrong?

00:11:45: if you understand it wrong is oh no I can't teach enough like I can practice for myself on Level Two.

00:11:53: It depends what the understanding of the round.

00:11:56: I would say that is the shift between you started to practice Qigong and you go or do transition more into kind of advanced state, advanced practitioner where we can say okay now i'm heading into a kind of teacher or heading how the choreography is and stuff.

00:12:24: And try to add bits in pieces, or subtract bits and pieces of your individual practice could look like so that the brave are the kindness on the braveness to say okay now I stop following the blind rules when he just taught me i know tried you break the walls and trying do something else.

00:12:50: yeah my personally experiences Dr.

00:12:54: Pahn told us so many methods, and so deep!

00:12:58: And fantastic entirety theory.

00:13:02: I don't need to break

00:13:05: When you say?

00:13:06: I get everything In his theory in his exercise.

00:13:12: yeah also i dont'needto break means that doesn't mean uh So im totally um stick on it like have the freedom inside And I have also enough space inside, yeah.

00:13:29: But the question is if it's necessary for me to create something new?

00:13:37: Yeah and from this not necessarily but for teaching or something else because different people need a different method.

00:13:44: some may say lift your body down these push-pulls too hard.

00:13:49: in this way you can do the soymilk crème or do some other method, a shortcut.

00:13:58: Or an easier one?

00:14:00: This is flexible!

00:14:05: It also depends on which situation.

00:14:09: compared to Dr.

00:14:11: Pound's entirely this method and theory.

00:14:15: I think it really enough for me go deep into because it's covered with the body, with a chi and also with spirit.

00:14:30: With mind you know?

00:14:32: And such great method!

00:14:38: So simple as well.

00:14:40: yeah that is really amazing.

00:14:43: so just really enough for me.

00:14:46: Thank you.

00:14:48: Yeah, that's interesting and let it compare or put a next to John's experience.

00:14:55: tell me john

00:14:59: um I've.

00:15:00: uh my way of learning tends to be make a mistake but it right.

00:15:06: Um And i hadn't realized that until i'd got quite a long way through My practice and That was actually the Way i started teaching as well.

00:15:13: I was arrogant enough to think that i had stuff people needed know.

00:15:19: So started teaching things and then you teach in a way safe but after awhile find out actually the people who come your class already knows lot of thing so they have to teach differently because not trying get them thinking or do same as me You're trying to get them to think or do things the way that they will find the greatest benefit.

00:15:43: They have the greatest freedom.

00:15:46: so I'd like To think, but i'll be disappointed if actually believe myself because we should always carry on learning.

00:16:05: I think that, and i found this with the form as well.

00:16:08: I remember many years because... ...I didn't initially start with Jineng.. ..I've studied a number of forms and taught in a number Of Forms And one other things that really struck me With Jineng was when first tried it.

00:16:20: I didn't like It!

00:16:22: I found it

00:16:23: difficult!!

00:16:24: I didn' t like doing Things That Were

00:16:25: Difficult!!!

00:16:27: I liked Doing Things That WERE

00:16:28: EASY!!!!

00:16:29: Because Easy Made Me Go.

00:16:30: Oh Look At Me I'm Good at

00:16:32: This!!!

00:16:32: Aren'T I A Wonderful Human

00:16:33: Being???

00:16:34: And actually, it was finding the difficulty within Jineng.

00:16:38: I think really a big turning point is that recognition of allowing the practice to be challenging enough so we can learn from it but not so difficult and prevents us moving forward.

00:16:59: It's kind an interesting balance.

00:17:06: jening form, the philosophies and theories of how Dr.

00:17:11: Pang expressed it have continued to give me that challenge.

00:17:19: I found things such as The Eight Phrases are a constant challenge.

00:17:25: they constantly remind me about places where i can carry on learning.

00:17:35: That is really powerful place.

00:17:37: If the answer is, when are you able to actually run with the practice?

00:17:43: At this point in my journey I would say that the point where you can run with a practise... ...is when you get overthinking that you've got it right.

00:17:52: When you can use it for yourself but in a way that's aware and comfortable.

00:18:01: And again just to lean into the point that Ping made about community and being part of the group.

00:18:09: It's really, really important to have that within it as well.

00:18:13: we need this chief field ,we need this gathering .

00:18:17: We need this sharing because not only adds to the level of challenge that we feel within the practice but also means then having support for our communities in order make things possible.

00:18:39: Ping, what is entirety for you?

00:18:41: And how would you express it to a person who never practiced qigong and has ever heard about that.

00:18:49: Maybe your neighbor.

00:18:49: Entirety!

00:18:52: Entiety or

00:18:54: chi-field...

00:18:55: Yes, the

00:18:57: entirety is like most important part of Chinese culture, tradition.

00:19:09: It's like human nature is an entirety.

00:19:13: I think this is easy to understand in the western culture, human nature because every day more and more people care about environment-nature relationship developed and waked up to fill this entirety.

00:19:34: If we do that, the nature will also fit back in a negative way.

00:19:42: And entirely is our nature actually?

00:19:48: yeah We are born in an entire holistic way The nature itself holistic, but our logical mind is separating.

00:20:09: The image in the Bible was written by Adam and Eva who were living this paradise.

00:20:27: for me It's like in the nature, origin entirely.

00:20:33: But suddenly human beings get more awareness because of the apple and fruit.

00:20:42: actually it is not an apple.

00:20:47: through the standing up in the path for a human being, we get our hands free and then started to work with hand.

00:20:54: And this gives triggers so that it brings cells to develop more.

00:21:01: In our small brain there are many sales connecting each other building up very pure, even and subtle quality.

00:21:15: With these qualities It's not only like the animals, human beings brain can reflect inside to each other.

00:21:26: Not only is an image coming in but we can attract images and develop a perception of language logical understanding.

00:21:37: And then when you watch in the mirror it recognizes me.

00:21:44: Many, or most of animals are still not yet developed.

00:21:50: And then they're living in a natural entirety way.

00:21:54: but human beings through this development awareness recognize myself and you know Adam and Eva get ashamed to put the clothes on their body and God came back.

00:22:14: You should get out of this garden because you shouldn't do it there.

00:22:19: Actually my understanding of Qigong experience helped me a lot to understand religion, how to understand these stories written in the Bible and this means actually not God but ourself also my personal understanding yeah?

00:22:36: Ourself!

00:22:37: Because our understanding recognize ourselves we put us separate from the entirety.

00:22:45: Because I'm looking to a tree, it's not me and look into nature also.

00:22:53: i have an ego.

00:22:56: more awareness of my life yeah is me ,my body My name And my occupying and separating.

00:23:08: and then The logical mind is developing.

00:23:11: Ego continuously, it's not bad.

00:23:16: It is a development but all the developments are taken in a spiral way you know?

00:23:24: In one direction and make your turn to have their direction.

00:23:28: so because uh...in this process maybe we need um..to be survivor getting better life quality improve yeah get more rich with material art, collecting, planting.

00:23:46: Try our best survival of fighting against animals and nature or bad weather.

00:23:55: For example it's for the hard life we need to work together.

00:24:00: then we always use logical minds to get invention of the tools, helps efficient work.

00:24:12: For example if we have some rest and then I reserve it for future tomorrow is kind of safety And when i need to occupy this belongs to me.

00:24:26: I reserved my own family.

00:24:31: This connection material level getting stronger And this formless part is getting with the development less and less, less trend than last used.

00:24:43: That's why todays' development is out of balance.

00:24:48: material logical mind extremely advanced yeah?

00:24:53: Then these formless entirety parts are missing a lot.

00:24:58: you know that's what causes lots of unbalanced problem but are always a mind.

00:25:09: Entirely, it's nature ability of human being spring that is maybe not trained or not realized and not wake up yet.

00:25:20: so its' not difficult if we want to explain this entirely in the logical way.

00:25:29: like Dr.

00:25:30: Pong said what is chi?

00:25:33: Chi is in an entire way And this entirely holistic state from the material, energy and information.

00:25:46: So these three merge together is an entirety but our eyes also what we see or listen to human beings can touch.

00:26:02: It's not entirely,

00:26:15: it is just one part of the whole.

00:26:18: I'm still slightly blown away by that response so i'd spend any time considering The Garden Of Eden and The Image Of GardenOfEden in relation to entirety And thats making my head go whoa!

00:26:32: That's fascinating.

00:26:36: I think it's fascinating because, yeah.

00:26:38: I completely agree that we are moving further and farther away from the sense of interconnectedness which seems so strange when things seem to be driving.

00:26:51: this is our ability to connect with each other in these online spaces.

00:26:58: It just seems the wrong way around.

00:27:02: the way that all of this interconnectedness or with his flow of data is now available should actually create a potential for things to open up and release.

00:27:12: but more it seems to create.

00:27:16: Very specific views on things very strongly held opinions, and the inability to listen to each other.

00:27:25: like everybody's been given a megaphone.

00:27:27: they can shout whatever i want.

00:27:28: nobody's listening anyone else.

00:27:31: And I think that what the idea of entirety is to me, and i'm going to still align...I think it was The Dalai Lama said we've got two ears in one mouth.

00:27:42: We should spend twice as long listening as we do speaking!

00:27:48: That has a root back to the concept of Entarity & Interconnectedness which you made about when looking at trees.

00:28:02: That is, you know I am with the tree.

00:28:05: The trees with me this it's part of a relationship with things that It feels like a step that is on A societal level more difficult to achieve nowadays and i'd its such a shame.

00:28:24: And I think that the power Of practices and I'm going To broaden it out beyond Qigong because I Think there are other Practices that enable us to do This But that level of awareness, the interconnectedness with everything I think is so important.

00:28:41: Yeah...I could dive way too deeply into this subject.

00:28:44: So yeah..I'm going to avoid it!

00:28:49: We've had a wonderful answer and we're just gonna step away from that one And see what Joe can throw at us next.

00:29:03: And I think if i remember my reading of the Bible correctly, one reason that God is chasing Adam a lot away it's also because then there's another tree in the garden.

00:29:21: If human beings eat this fruit from other trees or something like this and even he's going to become god as well.

00:29:32: And then this is actually related to Qigong.

00:29:36: For example, if our Qigon practice goes through any other spiritual experiment If you get further development You really unfolded the entirety function of your brain Because we are only using maximum ten percent at these times And if we can really unlock this gene level or evaluate it, the potential completely.

00:30:17: We do get these wisdom and we will discover inner rich abundant power And it could be beyond the physical three or four-dimensions laws, a lot of potential for human beings' minds and our true arms to sales.

00:30:38: In this way, integrity is very clear.

00:30:41: if you really get these experiences.

00:30:44: You don't need logic on mind To explain what is entirety because you feel it.

00:30:49: It does But not many people and really gets this experience easily.

00:31:00: And then I think as a teacher, it's a challenge for us to use our inner wisdom according the situation how we teach.

00:31:11: some people need more body level to move your body.

00:31:16: learn movement step by step.

00:31:18: get into this state.

00:31:20: Some are very sensible and they can feel the Qi immediately, some have a very bright mind.

00:31:28: yeah only listen one word for example this meditation and immediately they know everything!

00:31:38: The way to teach is also interesting.

00:31:40: how to teach.

00:31:41: that's why Dr Palm Already explained at the beginning, when we have three ways to teach with a body also.

00:31:51: Teach directly in Qi felt heart-to-heart with mind and today our one important goal for Qigong is to get balance.

00:32:08: Balance of life from human being with nature, balancing the relationship and also balancing our mind from logical to this unlogical entirety formless part.

00:32:28: To get these balances is very nice here.

00:32:31: it doesn't mean logical or egoist not good.

00:32:35: It just helps us but do be a slave from it.

00:32:42: This is the sense, yeah?

00:32:45: And for me its really big reason to supporting life together center.

00:32:54: in this way you get balance and then you got those wisdoms that can handle with lot of difficult

00:33:04: situations as well.

00:33:05: Yeah there was piece I read.

00:33:08: I was doing some research around classical Chinese medicine, or...I guess it was beginning of the year and i came across the concepts of the spirits.

00:33:19: Of the organs.

00:33:20: And there were two particular spirits that I thought were fascinating.

00:33:23: one was The Horn which is the ethereal soul and One Was The Poe Which Is A Corporeal Soul.

00:33:30: Just playing with these ideas and looking at the idea of mind and going, how much of our mind actually gets caught up with that physical experience?

00:33:41: And the human experience.

00:33:45: When we teach... We tend to have to teach into that human experience but in the ethereal part it is used as a phrase for heaven.

00:33:58: How can you nourish this?

00:34:02: As a teacher I think there's an interesting question because you kind of can't teach ethereal from a physical perspective.

00:34:14: You have to give it the space for it to be, and find a way to access or give people their place in.

00:34:28: That becomes very interesting because if they start accessing this space I think that changes everything.

00:34:38: And I think this is like the gateway into entirety in many ways.

00:34:46: It becomes very difficult to teach it from anything that we really have language for, because language is based on physical experience or scientific thinking.

00:34:59: and so yeah...it's a strange one!

00:35:02: Because it kind of makes work as Chigong practitioners pretty much impossible.

00:35:11: But yeah, we know it's not impossible because we still do it and is kind of frightening and exciting all at the same time.

00:35:21: And I really enjoy that idea.

00:35:23: Yes me too!

00:35:25: In this process...I changed my way of teaching a lot with Time.

00:35:31: At the beginning when i started to teach I think I'm the teacher.

00:35:35: It was my responsibility to explain clearly to teach it in a correct way.

00:35:42: Yeah, I need to build up chief field and show them as explain them yeah.

00:35:48: And so then my experience here and etc.

00:35:51: but later Suddenly somehow i realized that should trust the students.

00:35:58: you know Trust is very important.

00:36:00: Trust Chief Field, trust student.

00:36:04: Don't give any definition of conception with teacher or student where all one the entirety, yeah.

00:36:12: We learn from each other and we learned also a lot from students together!

00:36:22: We go continuously... Yeah

00:36:28: I had an experience of that just blew me away.

00:36:31: years ago there was one Chinese teacher Gao who came to the UK it's his first time here arrived And we did the first session with him on a retreat, and there was a person who is in the group.

00:36:45: Who afterwards came up to me said, Gow's chief field is amazing!

00:36:48: He so powerful he just amazin'.

00:36:53: I don't know whether i got that?

00:36:56: So next time he started his session ,I stood back and watched and observed what was going

00:37:03: on .

00:37:05: It was amazing because I didn't think you put anything into the Chief Field.

00:37:12: I think what he did is, created the space for everybody else to put something in.

00:37:18: And i remember watching it and going...I've had this wrong all this time!

00:37:26: It was just one of those moments which exactly.

00:37:29: that's why you're saying so often when we first start we are imposing ourselves.

00:37:34: We need to create a chief field.

00:37:40: My favourite quote from Shridamana Maharshi about, if you dig a hole did you create the whole?

00:37:45: No.

00:37:45: You just took everything out of it!

00:37:47: That feels very much like The Chieffield.

00:37:49: If you can get rid of all the junk that we bring to It We create this space which is so nourishing and amazing.

00:37:58: Is there maybe kind of western approach to think you make a wonderful, beautiful cheap space or chief field.

00:38:08: You have to do some Rosa Cushion here and some nice carpet and making a candle And what's that?

00:38:15: It was

00:38:16: like...

00:38:17: You know when I got want to go through tube Like yeah Yeah That is the thing right!

00:38:23: You have bring something but get out from the field.

00:38:27: kind of Yeah,

00:38:30: it's nice to have but not necessary.

00:38:33: You don't must have.

00:38:36: I Have one another question maybe Not directly related But how can you cultivate or hold?

00:38:42: do you cultivate?

00:38:44: every day your state and Your your healthiness And do we have a kind of morning routine kind of that?

00:38:53: How Do you start today with Qigong and cultivated through all the day.

00:39:08: I always used to think that i was really crap at practising, because the way i would get up in the morning and go outside not walk around and just kind of noticed what I wanted to do.

00:39:28: And some days, I'd end up in a place that I practised for... Some days might have practised it for twenty minutes!

00:39:37: Another day is when i would go outside and say oh its wet but it's raining and windy so i'm going back inside.

00:39:49: But somehow there was still something there for me.

00:39:56: Then when, with COVID and started to teach online.

00:40:00: And I started to do this thing about eight o'clock every morning i'm going to go on line in practice and people can join me.

00:40:07: um...and it's given me way more structure than I've ever been used to!

00:40:13: It has completely changed the way that I interact with Qigong.. ..And I am not sure if its improved how I interact With Qigom.

00:40:22: Its just giving me structure Because I think before, I was still giving myself the space.

00:40:29: And to me... The thing that Qigong has given is an understanding of giving yourself space and i'm not always good at it As anybody who knows me well will attest.. I tend get way too busy, way too involved in things Not have the space do what they really should.

00:40:50: but the way that she was coming to my life is just through that thing.

00:40:54: even if it's the act of stepping outside and taking a breath or two i'm going.

00:40:59: I don't want to be standing outside today, gives you a moment on that.

00:41:04: to me has been how its kind of got in under say also spent time when i've gone outside practice for an hour and half.

00:41:14: but For me personally, all that's done is kind of fed the idea I'm good at Qigong which i think it's utter rubbish.

00:41:20: That stops making any progress.

00:41:23: in order to make progress you need to recognise You've still got stuff to learn and if practice reinforces that oh look at me!

00:41:32: I am great...I have nailed this!

00:41:37: Absolutely failed because you need maintain your awareness.

00:41:45: That's what keeps it exciting and you need the space to do that.

00:41:48: I don't know if i've answered your question, but

00:41:56: or stay in this kind of state.

00:42:16: Is it even possible and how do you do that?

00:42:20: You're asking the wrong person because my answer is no, I can't stay on that stage!

00:42:23: Thank

00:42:23: you Ping!

00:42:23: Oh

00:42:26: yeah... Is

00:42:27: there a final answer to that?

00:42:30: Yes i think.

00:42:31: um..I used to practice very hardly like uh like in the chinese way when i started.

00:42:44: It's a one year, every day eight hours she go in this school.

00:42:50: And I did even additional in the evening at home.

00:42:57: When do you eat?

00:42:58: Oh sorry!

00:43:00: Yeah it was like starting eight o'clock in the morning until twelve and then in the afternoon four hours again up to lunch And then dinner, and after dinner I add something to myself.

00:43:17: I would like to practice this or that... So today it's a bit different!

00:43:30: Try more and more to integrate in daily life.

00:43:36: to keep the awareness is most important.

00:43:40: How do you do that?

00:43:42: I realize, you know.

00:43:44: Aware of what i'm thinking and aware of what am doing yeah.

00:43:50: Aware when the emotion is there.

00:43:52: why emotions are there?

00:43:53: Yeah Why am angry?

00:43:57: Why am so easily angry for small things sometimes?

00:44:03: yeah And this awareness I think it's most important.

00:44:12: Like John said, give yourself space and this is very important.

00:44:19: And I think for the most people who are working eight hours they have to do it for their family, play a role as father-mother of children with responsibility.

00:44:41: How many times do we have for the daily practice?

00:44:45: This really a big question, for most practitioners.

00:44:51: And that's why... The recommendation like normal way is you can choose at certain time.

00:45:03: every day you keep here For example I have time in morning or evening or choose one place.

00:45:11: You always practice in this place, and then you can very easily build up qi-fail than when you built up habit.

00:45:18: And like cleaning the tea every day getting breakfast everyday and building these habits for Qigong I think especially if it's a beginner off from some people.

00:45:32: they need healing They need to make their body stronger quickly.

00:45:35: It is very important but after a certain experience you get, and then you will realize that cultivating the mind is much more important than working with body or with Qi.

00:45:53: It's also much more difficult because Qi awareness, Qi one consciousness like baby Yeah.

00:46:03: and then our habits, logical mind you know is a restaurant like an adult.

00:46:08: You need to pay more attention to this baby.

00:46:11: let us like the seed.

00:46:13: yeah we need to reward her.

00:46:16: give sunshine keep warm let it grow up yes And these awarenesses are hard you know.

00:46:26: uh willing intention, I like to do it this my way.

00:46:29: The inner motivation is the most important

00:46:30: here.".

00:46:38: And i just jump in on something because again you've absolutely nailed it!

00:46:41: Because there's a perception that after years of Qigong you achieve this wonderful Zen-like state where nothing bothers.

00:46:55: a number of people who appear to have this state, but I think most of the people that appear to be in this State don't really have it.

00:47:08: They just pretend they do!

00:47:12: It is potentially possible – there's one person on particular I can think off….

00:47:17: There was only a child-like sense of joy in everything... ...that they did….

00:47:23: But i think that didn't come from knowing he was THERE.

00:47:32: to recognize when we are easily angered, when emotions arise.

00:47:38: And I thought yeah just to pick up on one of the pieces that you said they're pinging about, recognizing that we get angry at things and what's it all about?

00:47:49: That is really what Qigong is about!

00:47:55: To me it's a pathway somewhere... It's a route where once i get there I may never need to use the techniques ever again, but the journey to get there is fascinating and it could be lifelong.

00:48:15: So do you

00:48:15: mean Qigong is another awareness exercise or even only an awareness exercise?

00:48:23: Oh i think its difficult to answer that one because...

00:48:26: Before I ask you

00:48:27: Yeah thanks for that!

00:48:31: To me if..I always like the translation of qigong as becoming skillful with your chi.

00:48:41: So the practice itself is learning to become more skillful, and there would then theoretically be a point at which you mastered your Chi.

00:48:53: And if...and If you reach that point Then Would You Still Need To Practice Being Skillful With Your Chi?

00:48:58: If You Are Just...You Are Just Skillful with Your Chi!

00:49:04: So I think ultimately it's a practice That Leads You To A Place That You Would Not need to practice It But the people who I've met, because again my understanding of Pang's teaching is that he talks about the importance of structure and form.

00:49:22: And then at a certain point their form starts to dissolve... ...and we start coming into slightly more formal sense of practice.

00:49:32: but this still practice!

00:49:37: That is still Qigong?

00:49:39: This isn't the destination it just another phase development.

00:49:43: And then maybe beyond that, there's something.

00:49:46: But how the hell would I know?

00:49:47: That...I'm still on a journey!

00:49:50: I am enjoying The View.

00:49:51: Yes

00:49:58: it is good question and your answer reminds me also at that time when i did education in China one good teacher who developed her normability was invited to school.

00:50:12: we do lot of meditation.

00:50:16: I got many, many experiences.

00:50:19: And then he told me oh yeah you're very sensible welcome on board to this Qigong boat or is it like a huge ship from the pirate?

00:50:39: Welcome to the pirate ship!

00:50:42: I didn't understand at that time why pirate?

00:50:45: yes So, because everything is so nice and beautiful.

00:50:50: How nice?

00:50:51: I enjoy it totally!

00:50:52: I cannot relate anything to the pirate.

00:51:01: Later on when abroad in Switzerland then later Germany got my experience of life but married with this kind of live experiences slowly I did understand what the pirate ship means.

00:51:28: Life is like a huge river and usually we stay on this side, this bank.

00:51:36: Bank?

00:51:36: That's correct!

00:51:38: The left bank or right bank another side.

00:51:45: And then it's describing, ah so this where we live.

00:51:49: This bank is the ordinary life.

00:51:53: yeah everything in common normal.

00:51:56: you work on.

00:51:57: your get emotion quite normal like everybody do.

00:52:02: judgment emotions conflict fighting for life enjoy a happy love and You read something or you get some imagination of a hard inside voice, I should discover the other side of the river.

00:52:22: It's full of harmony beauty and truth as an entire to everything.

00:52:28: it is like idol.

00:52:30: what are you seeking for?

00:52:33: What your soul is looking for?

00:52:37: because they cannot be satisfied of everything in life, some voicing or voices yelling for you.

00:52:44: There's something else that should be

00:52:46: discovered.".

00:52:47: And then I got this feeling after a few days from my Qigong experience and it was immediately clear to me, Qigun!

00:52:58: This is the way to get on the other side.

00:53:05: to this ship.

00:53:11: And then, oh it's so harmonized!

00:53:13: So good I'm getting more energy, enjoy also more balance and like discover a new world you know?

00:53:22: Then i discovered the river is so huge just like ocean and they already get on board as well...and then the ship is lifting these.

00:53:31: um this bank..I cannot swim in back it's too far away already in the center yeah And then the other side is too far, so far.

00:53:43: The backside it's also far.

00:53:45: It like I'm hanging up and don't want to go back because i know that am on the right direction But I haven't get on the destination yet.

00:53:54: There are still a long or far way to continue.

00:53:58: Suddenly appear the pirate just appeared.

00:54:02: come out.

00:54:07: You should put down this thing, give everything out here.

00:54:14: It's a habit as you really cultivate yourself and face to the dark side of your character or your habits because nobody is perfect!

00:54:27: And I have to really face my shortage on that weak point in the darkest corner in my life, to be honest with myself because the cheese nourishes everything.

00:54:44: Cheese nourishes also the ego if you're not paying attention, nourishing everything and then if a chi is getting stronger it could get very emotional as well be able to master the Qi.

00:55:07: That's why you should cultivate your mind, otherwise it will pay a lot for it even very high cost.

00:55:21: and in this way it helps me also understand that our religion is teaching like we should love yourself or your neighbor.

00:55:35: Love is not because of logical mind.

00:55:37: We should love, you know?

00:55:38: Because it's a solution... really the solution Yeah!

00:55:44: Of certain level.

00:55:45: You need to cultivate your mind and put down the developer self And put down how shall I say the relative negative part here.

00:55:57: To get true better you somehow somehow like a pirate, if you don't do it will pay very high costs in this way.

00:56:10: This is also my true experience here and with the time I can understand even more.

00:56:18: what does that mean?

00:56:19: It doesn't only mean the pet piece or level one, two levels three.

00:56:23: It's really the whole life task!

00:56:25: Of course we can choose different ways to pet pieces For example, this river.

00:56:30: if you just want to play a little bit of water like swimming and then go back again your normal life is okay.

00:56:38: I also have these kind of students.

00:56:40: they do it once.

00:56:41: Once like gymnastic hours the duchi gong its ok.

00:56:45: yeah It helps too get more energetic or benefit a little And some people that's already enough.

00:56:55: They don't like to get more developed with the spiritual direction, it is not necessary and some similar as me.

00:57:05: they will make a decision.

00:57:09: this for my whole life long yeah?

00:57:12: And then you are on board!

00:57:13: You should take care of these cultivating minds.

00:57:24: That's interesting.

00:57:24: I have to process But but it's very few thoughts here and there.

00:57:35: It can be dangerous for yourself when you're not ready to go into the center of the river, right?

00:57:43: Then You Can Get Overwhelmed.

00:57:45: Yes That's

00:57:47: True Right.

00:57:49: Is There on a River On This Journey Maybe Somewhere?

00:57:53: A Kind Of Waterfall And What is Happening In The Waterfall?

00:58:02: A lot of water for us, not only.

00:58:05: You will experience beautiful views and discover a lot of things but sometimes it's also stormy.

00:58:16: It is interesting when some of the other styles that I've spent time with have spoken about a condition called Qigong psychosis where you lose yourself because of the practice.

00:58:33: And I can see how, yeah using an analogy of The River it is that there's a potential in the practice to go into some very difficult places and very dark places... Some places become very difficult to get out off!

00:58:52: Again i'll come back and say this one are reasons that I think Jenaeng is such interesting practice because it's been developed in such a way that when we release, we always follow with gather.

00:59:10: There is an expanding before there are returning.

00:59:14: so you're coming back to yourself and my sense of the time I've spent practicing teaching Different people be able to release different things at different points and go further a different point.

00:59:31: But it feels as if it's far safer approach than the number of others that I've come across because It gives you permission to come back when you want to come Back And yes, you can get into some You know.

00:59:47: It will expose stuff That is not...it isn't all sweetness and unicorns and rainbows.

00:59:56: There's real stuff that we can find in here.

00:59:59: We really understand ourselves, but there is always the way back and I think it's important to pick up something which was said... The concept of love within this is massively important But doesn't mean that it is rainbows and unicorns.

01:00:27: Long may that continue because if you face no difficulties, You learn nothing.

01:00:34: I'm going to stop there.

01:00:40: Maybe another direction.

01:00:44: What is your experience and have experienced differences between?

01:00:49: Practicing as well as teaching online versus offline?

01:00:57: Yeah

01:00:59: Which

01:01:00: one Each

01:01:02: one?

01:01:03: So what do you experience?

01:01:05: Or, is there a difference in the G field?

01:01:09: or how are people interacting with each other.

01:01:20: It's two very different spaces to work on and I can't say one is better than another.

01:01:26: they're different.

01:01:28: One of things that was really interesting When I started teaching online and because the people who are coming to my class were come in from a lot of different countries.

01:01:39: And then some other slightly questionable political things that have gone on over the last few years, when they happen.

01:01:47: there is certain people within group because where do you live?

01:01:51: get very affected by it?

01:01:54: So if feel like we're doing and it has an impact on the group.

01:01:57: So you're working with, in many ways a far broader awareness of what's happening but the connection is more subtle.

01:02:08: so if you work with a group of people face-to-face You can hold them more carefully...you can challenge them little bit more because something goes wrong then they are not going to be able just turn their screen off or walk away.

01:02:22: They'e there in your room with you.

01:02:26: So you need to be able, hold the space in online that much more carefully.

01:02:31: But the awareness is so much bigger and the subtlety of a connection is different.

01:02:39: It's just a different place And I think that combination with two really enriches practice.

01:02:47: The two together are amazing!

01:02:51: I wouldn't want choose one over another...I would have both within my life.

01:02:58: Yes, me too.

01:03:01: I think the only not superfluy going on by online teaching is if you teach some complicated movement to correct...to do a correction.

01:03:16: maybe it's not so good but otherwise yeah the q-files connection is wonderful.

01:03:26: Of course, face-to-face sometimes is more beautiful because you can touch.

01:03:33: You can hug people!

01:03:37: It's a different feeling but also for the chief field and hard to hard connection.

01:03:43: both are very beautiful...very nice.

01:03:47: And teaching and learning from me always happening at the same time because I'm teaching all students so supporting help me to learn and um yeah just always like this.

01:04:03: What about food in practice?

01:04:06: In a case of uh or Yeah, way off is it.

01:04:11: when you say entirety When You Say We Are Nature I go into the direction Of.

01:04:18: Is It Ethical Or Is It Um Yeah Practical In A Gone Practitioner Way That we Eat Animals Because We Eat Ourself?

01:04:33: If we stay in this analogy, do we eat ourselves?

01:04:38: Where are the animals and trees?

01:04:41: Yes.

01:04:43: Somehow!

01:04:45: That's also true.

01:04:47: but there is a lot of nature itself And you know... Is it in young balance?

01:05:00: Because in the nature, it's not everything just harmony.

01:05:05: It is a conflict.

01:05:08: and like an animal you know?

01:05:10: The food...the chain of the food.

01:05:16: The animal was tiger and lion.

01:05:22: It's like hunting or eating each other but whole The whole nature is in balance.

01:05:33: This balance, it's important and from the original teaching of Dr.

01:05:40: Pong didn't or doesn't focus on.

01:05:45: you have to be a vegetarian but you can select food which has higher quality.

01:06:02: So if you would like to do vegetarian or not, it's totally individual personal decision.

01:06:13: Of course there is a lot of advantage in the vegetarian way but Zhennan Qigong also doesn't focus on food And Zhunan Qigong also doesn't focus on biku.

01:06:33: Biku is in the Taoism traditional qigong, so you don't eat anymore and just drink some water or eat very-very less.

01:06:43: You can try a little bit for few days but we don't focus much of this biku exercise.

01:06:55: I

01:06:58: think it's such an interesting question because its kind of such challenging questions.

01:07:03: And yeah, I mean We can say that if we eat animals we eat ourselves.

01:07:08: But then we've already said that you know If you stand and look at a tree You are the tree in the tree is you?

01:07:13: so the same can be set of plants as well.

01:07:15: Yes

01:07:16: So um i think for me Um I Think it's right that we don't have a strong focus on it?

01:07:27: And I think it's also really Really spot-on that we need to focus on the quality of the chi In the food.

01:07:33: but I think we also need to have an awareness of what we believe is good for us.

01:07:38: So some people will feel very disturbed if they eat a certain thing, mainly because the way that they perceive that certain things and then won't find any benefit in it themselves you know?

01:07:57: If there are certain foods which most people don't like So you wouldn't ask somebody to eat something they don't like because what is that process of eating food?

01:08:11: If if you're not enjoying it, then you're NOT getting the nourishment and benefit from.

01:08:15: It so if if if eating meat makes you feel uncomfortable Then maybe That isn't something that you should be doing whereas if you find The nourishment in a joint-eating me than why should you not do that I think If you look at it on a broader societal level, I think that there is very strong argument about again coming back to nature.

01:08:42: We need the right balance in the way we exist.

01:08:47: There was really interesting piece which came across quite few years ago where they are saying that we have rotation of crops but an argument says having animals on land should be past the rotation of the crops because it puts nutrition back into land.

01:09:06: It does amazing things for the soil, but there's an implication that if I can't remember what this cycle was over a number years only one year the animal would be on the land.

01:09:19: so maybe we eat way too much meat in order to have healthy balance and reduce the amount and finding out how that works, I think it's kind of always moving in very complex.

01:09:43: So i'm going to pack away from that one before I say something offensive.

01:09:47: That's true yeah!

01:09:50: And also for Junaunchi Gong we experience different practical on stage as well with different body requests.

01:10:05: For example, for a certain level you practice for awhile and then have such feeling that are so hungry.

01:10:16: It's like some inner space is getting more open.

01:10:20: You can eat alot And also need to eat alot But not get in more weight because the transformation it good.

01:10:32: You keep very fit, but you can eat a lot.

01:10:35: A lot of things opening in our space transforming off the Qi always getting very hungry and this happened mostly for example by intensive training.

01:10:46: level two open more inner-space movement opens joints For example.

01:10:54: And also sometime before or after you feel that your Qi is very abundant And then in this period of time, you're not hungry.

01:11:06: You don't want to eat because your body doesn't need.

01:11:09: get very good.

01:11:11: nourished In these cases should follow what the body is telling us and not following our ego.

01:11:24: Yeah, you go telling me I want to have some sweeties or chocolate.

01:11:27: It's not what their body is telling you.

01:11:31: Very different

01:11:36: For people who don't Feel themselves anymore in practices a brackets.

01:11:44: How can you give them an advice?

01:11:48: Yeah, information how they can differentiate between the ego and body.

01:11:55: But after practice I think people will not keep for twenty four hours in this state.

01:12:00: so don't tell them to say it anymore if their body is hungry or telling us that he's hungry.

01:12:06: Okay but when i'm daily life there are fat people out with psychology better and out there or whatsoever.

01:12:18: So how can you, would say?

01:12:22: Can you differentiate between?

01:12:23: okay that's your ego which is talking to you.

01:12:26: well let's see our body.

01:12:28: I need salt or i need minerals whatever...can you differentiate the differentiate between them ?

01:12:36: And when do we know it's the belly or my body?

01:12:42: I think everybody knows.

01:12:45: Everybody inside in the true self, a true heart knows it.

01:12:50: All right The true heart know what?

01:12:53: What is real need and what his addiction?

01:12:56: yeah Yeah, I believe I would agree with that.

01:12:59: I think we are...I Think were good at ignoring stuff And thinking that we're going to have you know there's gonna.

01:13:06: You know suddenly an angel is going to appear and tell us what to do and that's not the way It works.

01:13:14: I remember having conversations with people saying, oh i don't feel cheap.

01:13:17: I'm not sensitive at all.

01:13:19: And you say well have you ever been in a bar and You can feel that trouble is about to happen?

01:13:25: Then they go yeah uh...and you Don't Feel Cheat.

01:13:31: We All Feel Cheated But there's an idea That it's something mystical under A skill that we need To develop.

01:13:38: but the bottom line Is that we all feel It.

01:13:40: we will feel it In different ways.

01:13:46: Do you pay attention to it or do you ignore?

01:13:50: That's the bigger question.

01:13:51: Do You Pay Attention To It Or Do You Ignore

01:14:21: practicing or you're extract from Qigong, your practice and journey in one sentence.

01:14:38: Oh that one is going to leave a long pause!

01:14:40: Okay...that was your sentence?

01:14:42: Yes it's the long pause.

01:14:49: I think that i am not my emotions..I'm NOT my feelings.

01:14:58: I am beyond, there is something beyond and that's where i want to go.

01:15:08: Actually it's way more than a sentence but I'm going to grab a piece from Rumi because I think there was a poem by Rumi That to me speaks of what Qigong is.

01:15:27: To

01:15:30: me, don't worry be happy.

01:15:34: Why didn't I think about

01:15:35: that?

01:15:40: Thank you very much both and maybe we have another time or the chance to talk deeper into it.

01:15:48: Thank You Joe!

01:15:53: Thank you for this wonderful conversation.

01:15:57: Stay tuned to next time and see you on Tuesday when the next episode will be released.