Episode 2 - What is the Difference between Martial and Qigong

00:00:00: Welcome to Chigong Academy podcast, part two.

00:00:04: So we record today the episode too and I asked myself while practicing Wing Chun yesterday or watching the movie afterwards from Ytman is there a difference between Qigong and martial arts?

00:00:17: Or is Qigon even a part of Martial Arts?

00:00:21: so John what would answer that?

00:00:24: um i think if you look at qigong in its kind of overarching term There is regularly a martial influence within Qigong practice.

00:00:38: I tend to talk about the idea that there is a mixture of Martial, Medical and Spiritual within it And so every single style of qi gong will have A certain mix Of those three with their net.

00:00:50: but The martial aspect tends To be quite quite stripped back in most qigong.

00:00:57: As somebody who's more interested In them at in the medical and spiritual I also find it weirdly frustrating that people who are practicing martial arts end up as Qigong teachers, because they kind of... They've got this wealth of knowledge around the Martial Art.

00:01:19: But then all the stuff around spiritual and medical and Chinese medicine and the underlying philosophies kinda gets bypassed.

00:01:26: So to me yes certain Qigongs have a very martial aspect too really don't.

00:01:34: All right, so do you have specific styles of Qigong?

00:01:38: We would say there's definitely Marshall in it?

00:01:44: Years ago I studied a system that was known as Bucci is... It was quite well-known in the UK and Belgium And it was interesting.

00:01:56: when you were exploring Bucci The guy who founded it Dr Shen had taken quite a lot of the classic texts and gone through them, uh...and revisited them.

00:02:07: He'd developed his own Tai Chi form.

00:02:10: he'd develop his own Qigong Form but the Qigung Form was based on a principle of Bin Qi.

00:02:15: Bin Qi is negative chi And you have to expel negative qi from your body.

00:02:22: It's an interesting take.

00:02:25: Personally, I think that Buchi is one of the Qigong systems does not play well with other Qigung systems because fundamental premises are very different.

00:02:35: But it was basically expelling blockages or expeiling negativity With a slightly more martial edge.

00:02:42: It's rather unkindly described as energetic Dynarod.

00:02:47: In UK we've got company called DynaRod who come and jet out drains to clear up crap.

00:02:53: It was like energetic Dynarod to practice.

00:02:56: And yeah, it was an interesting one because it kind of... Was very effective in one aspect for me Because I think that actually if we're looking at the health practice and spiritual practice We need to have the ability to welcome stuff as well.

00:03:15: What do you come kicks then?

00:03:17: In a combination?

00:03:19: Yeah.

00:03:20: That's why i think The mix is important.

00:03:22: You know..we need techniques To be able to release But we need to understand what that release is and What the impact of that releases.

00:03:31: but then?

00:03:31: We also need have something.

00:03:32: That, we do in order To fill that space that we've created by releasing And it isn't that we need put Something very specific In there but we can't ignore The Space.

00:03:46: Okay Well When you say Release or I got from You saying that Marshall Is a good way of releasing a bad energy or negative energy.

00:04:01: So my question would be what is negative energy?

00:04:07: Sometimes I just hate you Joe!

00:04:11: Okay, this again hits problems.

00:04:14: there's an idea here with no good and no bad

00:04:18: But do say that negative energy which use the bed isn't it?

00:04:21: yeah, and yep bin she has considered negative energy.

00:04:24: so negative energy in that sense would be something that is restricting, it's the way I'd probably express it.

00:04:34: As I say Bucci isn't my chosen form but only for a number of years back then and actually i always had an issue with this because I don't want to spend my practice looking at problems And I think that if you bring the focus onto expelling negative energy, what you're doing is your prowling around within your body looking for negative stuff.

00:05:04: That doesn't make sense to me because actually we should be inhabiting our being in a way of embracing this space and potential it has with inner not wandering about something bad.

00:05:23: It wasn't a system that particularly worked.

00:05:27: But at the same time, I can recognize... ...I've still got lots of stuff that is restrictive and i'd like to get rid off!

00:05:33: So maybe I'm just hiding from my own truth?

00:05:35: I don't know on that one!

00:05:38: The interesting part was when I started practicing Wing Chun in November last year so.. ..I experienced there's also the spiritual aspect inside it Also this kind almost meditative state, which is just the fundamental thing you need to achieve that it can go on.

00:05:59: Yeah!

00:05:59: You can practice the choreographical movement kind of things.

00:06:04: but when we start practicing the form... Which use first part for one and a half hours every Monday It's like yeah..you go through the form And when you went through the form, then go again to the forum but on the left leg.

00:06:22: Then you can do it from all right like and we are not where when your not mentally balance kind of thing which is for what they eat afterwards that he will fall definitely.

00:06:33: so

00:06:34: yeah okay there's a little bit of balancing but also look at focusing in mental health or mental Balancing kind of think.

00:06:45: so their For me, the Qigong aspect kicks definitely in.

00:06:50: Or whatever it is like... Yeah or that for a part of Qigon to have this balancing thing.

00:07:00: Also in Wing Chun there's kind-of okay I don't attack the person i just get attacked and react.

00:07:11: That philosophy got from it.

00:07:14: Is it negative energy?

00:07:16: Or is the definition of negative energy that it will hurt somebody?

00:07:23: But there's a question I'll ask myself.

00:07:25: Yeah, I mean...I still have to cycle back this idea if There is no good or bad.

00:07:34: I remember years ago Challenging someone in an interfaith group as part of saying you know.. I don't what difference between Good and Bad.

00:07:42: If i look on my life and greatest gift have come from what appeared to be very negative things happening.

00:07:50: So the greatest learning that I've had is from experiences of difficulty, it's loss of loved ones, lots of property lost work.

00:08:01: you know these types of things.

00:08:02: in a moment they feel incredibly negative but you can turn a negative into something that is deeply nourishing and informative.

00:08:12: So therefore, is it good?

00:08:13: Is it bad?

00:08:14: I think that in the moment we can make that assumption and then same way as you know a certain place for one person could hold a very negative connotation.

00:08:24: That's saying experience with somebody else to be able positive connotations.

00:08:27: don't think he can really apply the judgment today.

00:08:31: but i think the thing that they are fine fascinating about this is that and have to reflect here attitude teacher.

00:08:41: The Tai Chi teacher was so deeply aware of what was happening in the person standing opposite them, that they could disrupt their energy.

00:08:51: In the middle of a strike They can spot something going out of balance.

00:08:55: Now I've worked with people...I have worked with Martial artists who are very capable at doing this to their students.

00:09:04: And that's not real.

00:09:04: That is just the student playing a role of the dutiful students and falling over when their teacher goes.

00:09:10: boo, you know?

00:09:13: Unfortunately it was quite prevalent but this guy I went to work with him.

00:09:22: he could honestly do it.

00:09:26: his speed reaction to situations were astonishing And it raised two things for me that I thought were really good.

00:09:35: One of them was, ultimately his level of practice with Tai Chi... ...was deeply aware.

00:09:42: His ability to listen at a level i'd never experienced before.

00:09:49: That presence within the internal martial arts of awareness can be underestimated a little bit.

00:10:00: when you're talking about meditation, that's kind of.

00:10:03: can you quieten down the noise so you can honestly notice what is happening.

00:10:08: Is there place for awareness?

00:10:11: And I think this is an important part.

00:10:15: all these traditions and ability to create awareness but then within the Marshal exploit imbalance and knock the person off balance in this particular Tai Chi style that he taught.

00:10:34: But weirdly, because he had trained so hard on that He was incredibly good as a healer Because you understood the nature of balanced and imbalanced.

00:10:43: So he could also rebalance really quickly as well.

00:10:46: So it's like...he became an accidental healer by doing martial arts.

00:10:53: It is kind both sides to story then And I think it's a really juicy place to kind of explore because again, right or wrong yin and yang.

00:11:02: However you look at that... ...I think these are all paths towards something.

00:11:06: Maybe its just established or created the martial aspect?

00:11:10: Because already was old time there but discovered kinda thing.. ..because they were war here in their need.

00:11:18: balance universe society other people Just as tool for rebalance.

00:11:25: I think that there is an argument and i've got no direct experience of this.

00:11:31: but when you are in really difficult times, the opportunity to find internal balance becomes even more important.

00:11:47: You know, when everything is running beautifully.

00:11:51: When there's no issues then... There's kind of very little incentive to do any work To find those places because you're just sitting there in your beautiful little space and go.

00:12:01: And so I think it becomes very interesting again that if you consider what people must be doing In order to support their mental well-being?

00:12:10: In order the physical wellbeing when they are really in difficult situations you can see how that could have huge benefit.

00:12:20: I mean, was it Viktor Frankl?

00:12:25: You know and the stuff he came out with... ...I think there is so much learning in this area That you can pick up from so many places.

00:12:35: And i hear certain certain Qigong teachers saying oh no This Is The Only True Path and things like this.. ..and your kind of going?

00:12:46: No!

00:12:48: There are as many true paths, there are people.

00:12:53: Yeah

00:12:54: But but they're a mini frameworks that help us to understand and To move through the landscape more easily.

00:13:01: Hmm yeah makes sense make sense Even the combination with different things like.

00:13:09: I can't just talk for myself.

00:13:10: So um when i'm in the Wing Chun area?

00:13:13: There's a practice which is like I would say or describe it very Beginner words like sticky hands where it just have a feeling.

00:13:23: practice Like when do the person move up down left right?

00:13:28: Whatever.

00:13:29: and that feels like a mirror from for myself Like or reminds me to you're saying when I practice on your guidance Practice how it feels for you.

00:13:41: How is this right for you?

00:13:43: if he's good for you, don't take yourself into this enforcement of the structure, or practice because that will maybe be never negative energy kind of thing.

00:13:55: Or create an imbalance.

00:13:57: so when I have an imbalance with a sticky hands and have a punch in my face right?

00:14:01: So And then it's transformed to may be the self love thing where you force your self to go on practice Yeah, it's just obvious that That you always need to practice how you are able To to practice the the practice structure and how I feel like so yeah.

00:14:30: So the question which raises up in aims different directions.

00:14:33: When do know?

00:14:36: or?

00:14:36: when Do you feel that its right or wrong?

00:14:39: Or if there is no ride around what do you feel If It's good or not so good

00:14:46: for you.

00:14:48: Because I guess people are out there, sorry thank... You can continue!

00:14:53: We don't feel themself anymore and not at this level of detail i would say?

00:15:00: I think that there's a piece here from me about we- And I think it is absolutely demonstrated by the sticky hands thing.

00:15:08: uh..and pushhands and all kind related practices.

00:15:12: This Is About You in Relation to Somebody.

00:15:15: Else.

00:15:20: The example that immediately springs to mind, I practice in a yurt.

00:15:24: A yurt is the best place in the world to cheat at meditation because there are no windows so you can't get visually distracted but you can hear everything happening around you.

00:15:35: So quite often when people will come and work with me one of the techniques that i'll use it's they're asking them sit down listen to birds And what happens?

00:15:44: You cannot look at the bird or window And in listening, you put your awareness outside and it means that all of the noise in the head can just kind of disappear off because you're just listening to the birds.

00:15:57: Then if you want to mess with them a little bit I shouldn't admit this one probably but... It's a question of did you realise the birds are listening to you?

00:16:11: If you talk to musicians or performers performance is in response to audience.

00:16:16: there was always interaction.

00:16:19: The magic happens in relation too And I think this is one of the issues that... ...I find frustrating, and if you talk about spiritual bypassing.

00:16:31: If we look at the kind-of spiritual echo chambers which seem to be more and more existing now people seems to be disappearing into places where there's no challenge….

00:16:42: …and actually we need a challenge in order to see how we respond because it has us in relation too.

00:16:49: When you play sticky hands It's two people listening to each other and responding to one another.

00:16:57: In every situation that you're in, it is you listening and responding.

00:17:03: As soon as your make a statement like well this isn't my problem.

00:17:05: what we've just done was put the barrier up and prevented yourself from learning from a situation.

00:17:11: This may not be your problem but something with which I think this is central part within both martial arts as a pure martial art practice, and also it should exist more in Jigong.

00:17:23: We should be in response to... In relation to more of the time And not just disappearing into our beautiful fluffy pink love-filled world or whatever we call that.

00:17:35: How can there be?

00:17:36: How can concrete be to adapt them more through the Jigon World?

00:17:43: I think The problem is when they first come across jigong They want to do escape from the noise in their head, escape from the narrative.

00:17:52: Escape from suffering and difficulty.

00:17:57: I think quite a lot of people when they come looking for healing there's kind of an attractiveness to that place.

00:18:06: you can escape too And it is really valid part of process.

00:18:12: But In that process of escaping at some point we need open out so We can recognise our own position.

00:18:21: You know, this is if you think of like... If you think a scenario I quite often use the idea with the kindergarten or primary school playground.

00:18:33: Yeah!

00:18:35: Um..if something goes wrong in that space both parties would want to be listened too and you need to separate And listen.

00:18:47: That's part of the practice.

00:18:48: we need pull ourselves away take a moment take ourselves away from the thing that is stimulating us in a negative way.

00:18:59: But then, that thing is still there and so we can hide it for our whole further rest of time.

00:19:07: where they're all we can re-engage with them in different ways And I think too often these practices get stuck into hiding as opposed to reengaging.

00:19:24: Yeah, when you are get over this pain stuff or maybe burnout where I can talk about It's very comfortable to have just quietness.

00:19:40: When he practiced you going right and your feel Comfortable.

00:19:43: And you don't want to go out of his or those fluffy puffy room?

00:19:48: yeah

00:19:49: Yeah, I guess there is a point.

00:19:50: i guess as the point in.

00:19:51: you feel it was for me so To Go again outside off-the-room but it needs a little bit of Power and braveness I would say to open the door from this room.

00:20:05: And going out in the world, but you need to feel kind of equipped that You can leave the room.

00:20:15: so how can i for example?

00:20:18: Yeah Get the equip all these skills to live with a room.

00:20:23: what do you think?

00:20:25: um it feels like its.

00:20:30: it feels like you will never have the perfect set of tools.

00:20:34: I think people always... Have

00:20:35: a set?

00:20:35: Perfect!

00:20:36: Oh yeah, but the image that came to mind is that i've kind-of been over here and something's happened.

00:20:45: my response was just swing all the way over at other side.

00:20:49: so being on the left side of swung away from outside i'm currently hiding in the right side going.

00:20:54: im just gonna stay here and be quiet But still need come back and address the thing that's happened.

00:21:00: But I don't need to be out there being confrontational, um...I can go out and experience it And i can still retreat to a quiet place!

00:21:09: ...i can move between these two places.. ..i dont'need t be stuck in one or other.

00:21:13: Actually what im looking for is middle space What Im looking fowr as a space In which Im able actually observe everything.

00:21:22: Im able fully aware but Im also not needing either overreact with it Or hide from which are kind of the two extremes that sit there.

00:21:33: And this is why I think, um... The idea we have within the hirscher hands in their prayer position where we allow the base to rotate and tips fingers to rotate but the base stays steady becomes such an interesting piece because what says it's okay for them to be relating with physical experience It's okay for there to be pleasure, it is ok if they are pain.

00:22:05: But we can keep that chi which relates the base of fingers.

00:22:12: We don't need chase experience and give that chi The same way with tips in our fingers, its OK to worry or stress.

00:22:23: All kinds of narratives and beliefs going on continually nourish them with our energy, we can find a more centered space.

00:22:35: We can notice that narrative but we don't need to act on her narrative.

00:22:41: and so To me That is coming back into that space that Is neither being triggered or hiding.

00:22:47: it's been present And a lot of people will give it lip service and say oh yeah You just need to be in the now moment all the present moments stuff like that.

00:22:56: But actually it's like you're on a kid swing and It's okay to be in the middle bit, but unfortunately someone keeps pushing.

00:23:07: Yeah And there's just like.

00:23:10: You need to accept that?

00:23:12: You know you will go either side.

00:23:15: You will want to run away.

00:23:16: You we'll want to hide your world wants to engage you will want To do all of these things.

00:23:21: But then-but there is a balance.

00:23:22: point sits within the middle an occasionally We find those points invite people into within the Qigong practice, and I'd say that is probably in my experience of martial arts.

00:23:37: That's a place where you want to take your martial art too.

00:23:44: It's just a centred state of awareness but by which you do it there will be more on the fighting side then running away from its side some of the kind of less martial Qigong practices.

00:24:06: Yeah, happy to that you came back to Marshal with this because that's exactly what I guess every Martial Art practitioner should learn and i guess it basically is a philosophy for every Martian or almost every Martians who don't attack Because your ego tells You like The Old Movie Karate Kid don't attack because you can, just yeah.

00:24:34: Being in balance acting and balance not reacting so...

00:24:39: Yeah simple as that!

00:24:44: So thank you for this talk.

00:24:46: I guess we come to a close.

00:24:48: it feels like rounded.

00:24:52: Thank you for listening and we're watching.

00:24:56: We will bring next week an interview with another Jigong teacher online.

00:25:02: so stay tuned, see you next week!