Episode 11 - Which Way Up Is Your Triangle?

00:00:00: Welcome to Gigauna Panamese podcast episode this week, and that's all about triangle.

00:00:06: I've no idea about the topic but John brought it up from The Dutch Conference.

00:00:10: so what do you mean by the triangle?

00:00:21: There was a few standout moments at the conference that happened in Barlow, and one of them is the session that Ariane Ray ran.

00:00:28: And it was kind of focusing into.

00:00:30: I think you put... Did you put an actress being related to trauma?

00:00:34: Yes i did Yeah!

00:00:36: And uh..I ended up sitting with a couple people who are completely engaged And the impact of this session, it was just incredible to watch.

00:00:53: But one of the models that were used is a model of triangles.

00:00:57: and which way up your triangle?

00:01:02: It's so simple but has so much

00:01:04: power!

00:01:06: I really want you start chatting about them.

00:01:10: see where we went... So welcome!

00:01:13: Would you like say something?

00:01:15: your work and experience to start with.

00:01:18: Okay, well I love being here!

00:01:20: And i really loved meeting you in Barlow.

00:01:23: it was one of my goals.

00:01:25: whatever happens...I'm going to meet John..and I don't even know why but it happened.

00:01:33: My name is Arianne ,i am teaching here already for like twenty five years maybe and I've got especially a lot of experience by physical problems.

00:01:47: So the healing part of Chi Neng.

00:01:51: Chikong has always just been thrown on my way, iIjust had to... so that's one part!

00:01:59: And that is alwaythe way that im teaching because for me it´s just one-on-one It´s the same..i mean its chi neng.

00:02:08: but for me, the aspect of healing has been really huge when I look at my own life.

00:02:15: Then other aspects because I was looking at the triangle thing like oh!

00:02:21: When did this occur to me?

00:02:25: Because it's not something that happened over years.

00:02:30: and then i thought what can we do with my husband a daughter who is deaf?

00:02:38: So in our home, we speak sign language.

00:02:43: We have a lot of deaf friends and it's not only that you're speaking sign language but also sign language is like doing things with your hands.

00:02:53: But if really into the Deaf community You use whole body or mimic everything.

00:03:02: so when I teach And didn't even know until people told me I teach with everything i have.

00:03:10: So at a certain moment and what I always do is that, I look at people And see them standing...and think..I don't understand What you're doing?

00:03:23: I'm going to mimic That in myself!

00:03:36: trying to make the form or the push-pull, whatever from their mind.

00:03:43: What am I doing?

00:03:44: it right?

00:03:44: Am i doing the form

00:03:45: right?".

00:03:46: So I saw everybody up here and feeling a little bit more less but they way were really in there body was even less.

00:03:56: And then just so them like oh my god!

00:03:58: But if that's triangle on your wrong side It can be Whoa, fall down.

00:04:07: You have to start in another

00:04:08: way.".

00:04:09: And the funny thing is that if you go into theory with Dr.

00:04:13: Pong or whatever it's always about the importance of the lower Dan Chen and we're saying that every time again-and-again also about Mingmen Palace and things like that.

00:04:28: still people say okay your are saying this but here.

00:04:33: So, every time the start is from here and not from there.

00:04:39: And then I just saw because... ...I also have a big history of dancing especially Flamengo.

00:04:47: Then i just saw that Flamengo was really like into the earth!

00:04:53: You can see in Flamango's arms going up but it's up but down.

00:05:02: so it's really like this.

00:05:05: And then you can go, wow!

00:05:07: Like that?

00:05:09: Then you can really reach up and things with she I've... That's what they do.

00:05:15: Yeah So so then uh i started explaining with the triangle.

00:05:20: if we just keep on doing it like This We're going to fall one day or another.

00:05:26: One way Or Another we have to be into the lower Danzian.

00:05:37: But in last two weeks even more happened, can I just go on?

00:05:40: Yeah please do!

00:05:42: Okay because well i'm teaching a lot of level three and started with Level Three here at Holland.

00:05:50: And within The Institute I am teaching that...and I really love it.

00:05:59: but Level Three is.

00:06:01: there's so much levels you can go deeper and deeper into it.

00:06:05: And the last few weeks, I was busy with The Heart Moudre.

00:06:09: So the heart mudra what does the heart mood or mean?

00:06:13: Do You Know What Does It Really Mean?

00:06:18: I'm going to Go With No because i'm endlessly fascinated at the Levels that go here!

00:06:23: Okay well a lot of people if should ask That they're about like all the shun and something with the Shun in the consciousness and things Like.

00:06:32: But in a Chinese character, this means the top of the biggest mountain there is.

00:06:39: So these are some mountains and here your heart or middle fingers it's atop of the mountain.

00:06:47: so if you feel that inside then you realize okay!

00:06:51: You have to bottom off the mountain which is sure lower down chin...you'll have the heart on the mountain..which is in the middle of the mudra.

00:07:00: If you're top-of-the-mountain But then you're by way is really the top of the highest mountain.

00:07:06: So, you already passed all the clouds.

00:07:09: You are on top of a mountain and can see everything but your attached to nothing.

00:07:16: That's one part.

00:07:17: What if it was a mountain?

00:07:19: Do you see that mountain?

00:07:22: The Triangle?

00:07:23: Really?

00:07:24: But... The Mountain doesn't start at the surface of Earth.

00:07:30: There'a lot of mountains you don't see.

00:07:33: Yeah

00:07:34: And then, if you just really feel it.

00:07:37: It's really fascinating!

00:07:39: If you really FEEL IT... Then that is how we stand.

00:07:44: We see what we SEE your body and HOW YOU STAND.

00:07:48: But there are a lot of information about you we don't see but which has its impact in your chi-fields In your moving, healing & everything.

00:07:58: So when you align for example with your heart mudra be around, available.

00:08:07: How do you say that?

00:08:08: Into your whole G-Field and everything there is even in the part she don't see but which has its impact on

00:08:15: you.".

00:08:16: And that's what I now am exploring within The Heart Moodra.

00:08:20: This was two weeks ago when I had a teaching of Two Days about the heart and kidneys at level three.

00:08:27: It was my first time with this group because it felt like No, like oh my god.

00:08:36: This is a whole new level of understanding but also with the pyramids because it's... Like this is what you see But it's not where to start.

00:08:45: so that physical pyramid It's the same.

00:08:50: You see pyramids?

00:08:51: Which I know.

00:08:52: there are alot of them That you don't see.

00:08:55: Yeah

00:08:56: So if your thinking about that its like Oh!

00:09:00: It looks like the iceberg model isn't It is.

00:09:02: Yeah,

00:09:02: it is yeah.

00:09:06: Can you explain sorry?

00:09:08: No Joe go on Go on.

00:09:10: can You maybe name some bits and pieces or describe what Is that part which is not visible?

00:09:17: is That true self Or mental health are like?

00:09:22: ya know What your capable of And you can't get shocked from somebody else or something?

00:09:32: Okay, I'll give you an example.

00:09:38: Before i started with Chineng my lessons around my body and things that could happen already happened.

00:09:45: so I fell from my horse...I broke my lower back And at the moment when I fell for my horse My lower body was paralyzed.

00:09:56: At this same time I was just laying down looking up to blue sky.

00:10:01: Just years later I realized, wow blue sky we're just always talking about blue sky.

00:10:06: That was when i really saw it and at that moment directly for me It was like um...I entered that information field of me then I never entered before Like not in fear or form Not oh my god what's going to happen now but right away into a and we're just being carried here by the earth.

00:10:33: And our path is already here, I can fight this but... This what it is!

00:10:40: So you know?

00:10:41: You've been living like a person walking through life.

00:10:46: then suddenly not only are these people working for their lives But they feel so much more where there's no words.

00:10:56: So it's that and its also more form like your generational forum, you're lying.

00:11:01: Your family constellations or things like that... ...your patterns that you know are.

00:11:09: you don't know well the country you live..the place you lived The space you have here in Norway.

00:11:22: That speaks exactly to what I was hearing, you know that there is so much under the surface.

00:11:27: And i think thats one of the joys.

00:11:30: these opportunities talk people and although yes we're all European We come from slightly different cultures.

00:11:37: So we cannot understand by cross-cultural pollination a little bit about our cultural norms which certainly feel like part at bottom triangle the bit I was dying to say about The Triangle, i've never figured out level three of Jining.

00:11:53: It's just it's just never worked for me!

00:11:57: Um...I learned that years ago from a nameless teacher.

00:12:01: um well he wasn't nameless but i'm not naming him and i spent six months practicing it and the only conclusion i came to at the end of it was i'm good at Qigong which seemed a completely pointless thing so i stopped.

00:12:14: But what you've just described there?

00:12:18: I hear that in terms of other frameworks that i work with and it's just one of those things about.

00:12:25: It is just a map, but I've never really been able to read um... But Is That Because?

00:12:31: My Triangle Upside Down And I'm Trying To Understand It From Up Here?

00:12:36: Yeah

00:12:36: Especially Level Three!

00:12:38: yeah..And Im Trying To Fit In From Up here When Actually I Should Not I shouldn't be coming into that space.

00:12:45: What happens if i build it from the ground up?

00:12:48: That's why they say, and what they've said before you really have to... You could really live level one or two in your daily life Before you go to Level three because It has been called a nameless book Not saying any names that level three could be dangerous.

00:13:17: It's not, I've never ever understood why it would be dangerous.

00:13:21: but i do understand you really need the basis of level one and two being in your body.

00:13:29: Um, the speed they go through level one to two and there's still just in form.

00:13:38: They're not living the forum.

00:13:40: They don't integrate it into daily life but they can do the form day on day.

00:13:45: you know I can do a push pull or i Know that have to do my shoulders like this whatever.

00:13:49: um But what are you really doing?

00:13:53: And if you have not experienced That then is going to be difficult with Level three.

00:13:57: Or You're Going To Be Challenged Within Level Three Because a lot of times when I have been teaching people the level three, then at the end they say oh my god.

00:14:07: I have to start all over again with everything.

00:14:12: Yeah

00:14:12: and for me because well you'll have your exams in Level Three And A Lot Of Times i think You're Already Passed The Exam.

00:14:22: You Don't Have To Do The Form Because The Way You've Really Understood It That's What Level Three Is Its Not The Form?

00:14:30: Yeah, I completely get that.

00:14:33: It was one of the things when we developed a teacher training program or when we redeveloped it a few years back and were doing in conjunction with one of UK universities so had to have marking schemes, ways people demonstrate their level understanding.

00:14:49: We looked at.

00:14:51: what does this look like from an academic perspective?

00:14:55: is relevant?

00:14:56: From a Qigong practitioner perspective?

00:14:59: And it's exactly that same question to me.

00:15:01: You know, there's kind of an academic understanding which is this way up triangle and as the embodied understanding which has which is the other way out?

00:15:10: Yeah I think that there's a point at which all of them come together.

00:15:17: yeah

00:15:17: but

00:15:21: if you really live The Qigong form what can happen There?

00:15:28: Oh,

00:15:30: yeah.

00:15:30: Yeah because then it's open and that's what you always hear from the Asians The pyramids That the information that was happening is from the top of the pyramid.

00:15:41: And then what's

00:15:42: happening there?

00:15:45: You don't see us but but you can feel it.

00:15:48: I'd like to come back into one other bit.

00:15:58: Yeah, yeah absolutely.

00:16:00: Because I teach in the URT and it's a fascinating space to work in because if you stand at the centre of the shape that kind of funnels all the sound back.

00:16:09: so as we talk into the center It surrounds us with sounds but when talking about edges The sound is still in the middle.

00:16:17: That's an aside right?

00:16:18: Triangles where was going?

00:16:22: Watching what happened in Bahá'u'lláh And talking people their experience I spotted something else that i thought was really fascinating.

00:16:31: Now, one of the things that i'm really interested is how people react to certain ideas because my experience over the years is that i can have the intention to have this impact and i will never have that impact!

00:16:46: People will all hear it differently they'll respond differently... And one other conversations that happened afterwards which It was about stress, it was about getting caught in your narratives and allowing your beliefs.

00:17:04: Your fears you worries to restrict your life And that was expressed as one of these upside-down triangles.

00:17:14: Um...and I thought that this..it was such an interesting piece to throw in there because Yeah!

00:17:22: Its the thing about.

00:17:22: does the head run everything or just body run everything?

00:17:28: There's, if I then compare that to... there is this line at the beginning of eight phrases.

00:17:34: The ding, tianli, d, the head connected into heaven and feet connected in earth.

00:17:41: And i know it was an old fashioned one!

00:17:47: I'm kind not interested.

00:17:52: There's something in just the base idea.

00:17:55: And

00:17:55: everything is already there, so why do we need a new one?

00:17:59: Yeah and I don't speak Chinese or get caught up in subtexts of it...I'm fascinated by this idea but its fascinating that first place they go to is up Ding Tian then Li Di.

00:18:15: i've been asked this question over again Why did we start by connecting head into heavens before we connect the feet into Earth.

00:18:28: Yeah, I've kind of got a thought on it but...

00:18:31: That's interesting!

00:18:33: But yeah… It is kinda strange way around and then if you think about it – If you build the triangle The direction of motion of building Is rising in to Heavens?

00:18:47: Yes that's true.

00:18:52: I'm not sure about it.

00:18:53: I feel as if there's kind of an interplay that is far more subtle than we can necessarily pick up on here.

00:19:00: okay um i'm going to make it even more difficult.

00:19:05: or

00:19:05: please do yes

00:19:06: and please do well because i am so obsessed.

00:19:11: Obsessed is not a good word, but with level three that everything you say I can just like hear the answer from Level Three because what happens and What?

00:19:20: I really adore from level three.

00:19:22: It's when you start You don't start with the eight verses Mm-hmm.

00:19:26: When you start you start like Everything is already here

00:19:31: right yeah

00:19:33: everything.

00:19:34: so you know with they with the tiger mouth you The whole universe Is Already Here.

00:19:39: mm-hmm it's out, there is no in.

00:19:43: There are no duality everything here and we don't have any boundaries.

00:19:49: so that's a good thing.

00:19:50: you do not think anymore about up or down because your rights almost like people say this is very important.

00:20:04: but after for this also from level three, I'm really sorry is that the middle?

00:20:12: so in the middle.

00:20:13: So if you have like the pyramid not that... You are in the pyramid but it's still here when your on palace and from who you're on palace up?

00:20:25: It's like body of mind Your body into the earth And then your upper-down chain is to blue sky.

00:20:33: In the middle what's within level three in the Middle is your spleen.

00:20:40: When your spleen is not in balance, we're up.

00:20:46: We are worrying and trying to understand or trying to seek for a solution were busy in our head... when you're on the palace it's like this You're in trust but everything that happens in life passes you're moving to a palace, passes the middle.

00:21:13: And in the middle there is the possibility that we go stay down and from then on like part three of level III it's at the Crane's Gaze.

00:21:28: so what happens?

00:21:29: You stay down!

00:21:30: Staying your middle...and look all around..you see everything....you understand everything but you keep quiet, in balance and here.

00:21:45: So yeah it's up!

00:21:47: But how are you up?

00:21:49: Yeah exactly... And that to me I mean as you know i'm obsessed with eight phrases.

00:21:54: so That To Me is Why Ging Naging Expand Without Judgment.

00:21:59: Notice the Stillness Within.

00:22:01: But also It Becomes Interesting As Well Because There Are These Warnings That Exist About Don't Do Level Three If You Are Emotionally Unstable Yeah.

00:22:12: And actually, I think you've really spoken to that as well because there is a point at which if your... If you are... Sorry!

00:22:21: I'm completely...

00:22:23: We're getting every time.

00:22:25: we're coming back every time to symphonies okay?

00:22:28: If you were driven by your narrative or mind then it creates the potential for emotional instability.

00:22:35: It means you're able to then put your chi way more into your fears and worries, which means that if it is the place where we start our practice from what can be done is strengthen your fears.

00:22:52: That makes complete sense for me as I think translation is emotionally stable.

00:22:59: but there's an interesting idea within.

00:23:04: One of the things I'm completely obsessed with is, and again shouldn't be obsessed.

00:23:08: No judgement!

00:23:10: But one other thing that i am really obsessed with... ...is the idea that prior to the standardization of traditional Chinese medicine there was an idea of spirits that existed within a classical model.

00:23:24: And so what we find?

00:23:27: sometimes the spirit and emotion get pushed together.

00:23:32: The spirit in the emotions are slightly different.

00:23:35: So the spirit in very simple terms, I would describe as it's the seed of the emotion.

00:23:44: Whereas The Emotion is the manifestation Of that movement.

00:23:49: so if we think about the Seed of Anger...the seed of anger It's a first rising That creates action but the Manifestation can turn into Rage Now.

00:24:00: now We Say Anger But Most People Hear Rage.

00:24:04: But

00:24:06: actually, there's something right at the beginning of it that is really subtle.

00:24:10: And if you've got the ability to be in those spaces then I think level three might would make an awful lot more sense.

00:24:18: Well, the funny thing is we're talking always about one side of emotions.

00:24:27: One side what organs can create.

00:24:32: but on other sides for example deliver energy is your, you can grow.

00:24:42: it's the birth grows.

00:24:43: It's a strength to power too.

00:24:46: keep on growing to be creative To Be into life to enjoy life.

00:24:54: You know with all there is and And that's what all the emotions.

00:25:01: so every time they.

00:25:04: The problem is that a lot of times we think, We have to work with the emotion from the bad side.

00:25:15: But you have to understand both sides so you understand where there are emotions like this or Like This and You'll Have To Understand How You Come Back Into Balance.

00:25:35: So Going back to the pyramids And especially, like for example with the liver or heart energy.

00:25:42: If the liver-heart energy goes like this because you don't understand that there is a possibility of a balance and what can create?

00:25:55: How do you get there?

00:26:02: There are forms to get there but if your only practicing it as form You will stay Yes.

00:26:11: And that's with the emotions going up, so is it dangerous?

00:26:15: No I don't think so but you have to understand what you're doing.

00:26:18: Yeah yeah...I think the dangerous thing is an interesting piece.

00:26:27: You know there are instructions we've been given in the past about Jigung is unsuitable for anybody with a mental health condition and something gets lost in translation because to me burnout stress, anxiety and mental health conditions.

00:26:44: And Qigong is absolutely fantastic in those places.

00:26:48: but if the mental health condition it's a disassociative condition If means that you have a tendency to separate from your body or the personality separating then this somewhere where I think we do need greater care.

00:27:09: So, you know on one hand I completely disagree with the instruction and On the other hand.

00:27:15: I completely agree And i think it's The same With the instructions on level three.

00:27:19: There are some people who It doesn't work for but For the vast majority Yeah Imagine its going to be an amazing thing.

00:27:26: But then you are invited to really understand what we're doing, but also what is happening in your body.

00:27:35: Because if I was talking about trauma within the conference and have been with a lot of young people that had traumatic experiences.

00:27:50: they were not attached to their physical bodies.

00:27:54: so then go back of Chi Neng.

00:28:00: And when you go back to the information on Chi Nen, You're not connected with your body?

00:28:05: What do you do?

00:28:09: as first reconnecting it's going back to Ming Men relaxing in your kidneys.

00:28:15: Why?

00:28:16: Because Ming Men and Ming Men Palace is where you started It was.

00:28:21: there were no trauma or fear.

00:28:28: there was just your blueprint.

00:28:31: So what you do is, bring them to the lift job because that's not going to happen or you have to do the kidney exercise of level three?

00:28:40: Of course not!

00:28:41: But okay so this happens.

00:28:45: they get out their body all or the kidneys, they're not in contact with their mingmen.

00:28:56: So what do you do?

00:28:57: The only thing I do is explain.

00:29:00: the coming week before i see you again.

00:29:02: every time you sit You put a pillow behind your back and if it's winter...you just put a warm

00:29:11: hot

00:29:12: water bottle In your lower back so you reconnect to your lower bag.

00:29:18: They don't have to understand what's happening there?

00:29:23: What's happening when people are out of their body disconnecting.

00:29:26: Okay, if it's like that or If It's Like That doesn't matter.

00:29:29: one question about disconnecting with a buddy.

00:29:32: What do you mean by that?

00:29:33: is that like yeah way off sickness I would say like psychotherapy psychological problem or Yeah

00:29:45: could be

00:29:46: world smartphone age.

00:29:48: were you just somewhere else with your mind, and they're disconnected with the body?

00:29:53: And you don't care about getting fed or

00:29:55: yeah.

00:29:56: Yeah well it could be a lot of things but people that I've been working with are They have experienced such traumatic experiences and It could have been like an accident Or illness or the way they've been treated in youth or abusive relationship whatever and That means that they are really With their focus outside.

00:30:19: You know, you have to be aware of what's happening outside because I cannot trust other people.

00:30:28: Yeah, to the part before.

00:30:45: And that's your lower back and thats your Ming-Man That is relaxing within your Ming Man.

00:30:51: Then you have the biggest part.

00:30:53: So it takes like maybe they will never do a lift job so who cares?

00:30:57: It doesn't matter Lift up as a technique its not a destination

00:31:02: But you'll have an essence of what we're doing.

00:31:07: I think this is really wonderful.

00:31:08: there are so much healing possible if only connect with your Ming man.

00:31:14: I just want to quickly jump in because i thought that question was fascinating, cause there are two kind of sides.

00:31:21: Yeah!

00:31:22: I got really intrigued by an Indian Guru Shrutamana Maharshi who his roots enlightenment it described as neglecting the body and only working with mind.

00:31:39: but what we're talking about here is not.

00:31:44: it's not neglecting in that sense, which to me is about not getting...not allowing your energy to get caught up in physical appearance and physical norms.

00:31:58: It..it's a bit....It is almost disassociative!

00:32:07: One of the things that I find against, sorry.

00:32:09: I'm going to jump on one of my favorite ones which is Which Is The Idre Of The Horn And The Poe?

00:32:13: – the two spirits.

00:32:16: and in the origins of classical Chinese medicine there's an idea pretty much everything can be looked at from a perspective of connection with the horn, ethereal and poe, corporeal.

00:32:30: so part view as heaven And these two should always be in a state of balance.

00:32:37: So when we talk about the emotions, The rising emotion is part of that balance.

00:32:43: When you're talking about returning emotions You are talking about grief or sorrow.

00:32:47: This all parts into weaving of the ethereal and corporeal.

00:32:52: My sense of Shrida Manamahashi was his focus within the ethereal But he's awareness as well Whereas when we see things that are traumatic enough to create separation, even when you go back thousands of years into the origins of Chinese medicine and classical models they're saying this creates disturbances.

00:33:17: That creates symptom within the body that create problem?

00:33:22: And so yeah I think it's the nature of the separation or the nature.

00:33:25: Then I

00:33:32: go back to my obsession.

00:33:34: Please do

00:33:36: Okay, because why within level three?

00:33:40: Do we start with the heart and kidney To be like-to have that pyramid already Like this before We go to the Hoonan depot And The ethereal etc.. And the possibility to Be out of contact or whatever.

00:33:55: so also Within Level Three they are working on being strong in the basis, then you go to your spleen.

00:34:03: That's so that you're not going to stay in all the words and all the theories

00:34:08: etc.,

00:34:09: but sure You have trust at what ever happens.

00:34:12: And then you goto do whom impose?

00:34:13: Then he goes through your liver or lungs.

00:34:16: Yeah I think there is an interest.

00:34:18: i need To throw this in quickly because uh i know that There will be acupuncturists some people who listen to This and theres lots of variation around five element theory.

00:34:28: So the I think that we need to kind of just have a moment To say that the alignment of the organs isn't the alignment to the physical organ It's it's the alignment see function of the organ.

00:34:42: And this is why i find The term heart so difficult to work with because depending on the model That Is used heart can mean center or Heart Can Mean top.

00:34:56: And if you look at the idea of the Shin, which is where the Hun takes up residence.

00:35:01: The shin sometimes gets translated as a heart but that's when ethereal soul is said to take root in your body.

00:35:10: So there are lots potential contradictions here and I think we need get out our heads stop thinking about this Stop getting caught on top of the triangle again.

00:35:21: what's actually being spoken about here?

00:35:23: because it is the movement, its interaction of different forces.

00:35:29: It gives space for all these things to flow through!

00:35:35: So yeah... sorry again this why we have carry on having conversations like that?

00:35:43: Because there so much to explore!

00:35:46: We had a half an hour didn't?

00:35:48: I

00:35:52: would say we don't care.

00:35:53: We just see if there's something else which will have...we want to talk about, right?

00:35:59: Is this is something you were going ask again, Joan, about trying us?

00:36:03: Yeah!

00:36:03: Um..I

00:36:07: don't think so.

00:36:08: There's a-to me.

00:36:09: there's just so much here already and i think it's that....i mean ,we spoke earlier on the idea of being quiet and centred but aware And I think that speaks to the learning state as well.

00:36:28: If we look at it in a way where you tend to learn, and what I feel is if I personally learn... ...I need to hold things lightly not try get them correct….

00:36:39: …and just see how they resonate with me!

00:36:42: That lightness of holding means that.. ..I can listen to things and engage in things then start to kind-of... makes sense within the frameworks if I don't try to impose a framework on them.

00:36:58: So, to me what i've just got has given so much food and it's giving me so much to kind of chew-on and explore and think about... And I'm certainly going back in listening over this many times because there is just so much here to digest that..I don't need dessert!

00:37:18: The main course was great.

00:37:19: Thank you.

00:37:20: Wow,

00:37:22: that sounds great!

00:37:23: It really sounds great.

00:37:24: yeah oh the thing is.

00:37:26: what I wanted to add is that um... The problem with words are their words and everybody has a different meaning of certain words because they have other experience or with teachings, and some people are really attached to a certain teacher who told them this.

00:37:51: And they want to hold on that

00:37:53: teaching.".

00:37:54: I always try to let the words just be there... ...and invite everybody not for information.

00:38:08: you think but feel in your heart in your body and what happens then.

00:38:15: And go back to making it simple, because that is for me... That's really the essence of Chineng Chikong!

00:38:25: It's simple and people are creating making a difficult.

00:38:30: That's a big one.

00:38:32: Oh wow, resonates.

00:38:34: when I met Tom John the first time?

00:38:42: When he got into practice in English, that was the first time it was like coming home listening to true words.

00:38:48: Not a German!

00:38:50: It's...it wasn't complete different language and That is an interesting one because Yeah people say that English much more lighter easier To understand much more lean language not so complex or whatever.

00:39:04: but that implies that its all about simplicity isn't it?

00:39:09: And not about complexity, which also directs back to the pyramid right.

00:39:13: Yeah

00:39:16: I would like just quickly come back on that because one of my experiences when i first trained out in China and we were being taught with mainly Chinese at one point some of the chinese teachers who are speaking chinese and they have very limited chinese i can say ni hao and howla but sometimes you felt utter simplicity in the tones and a way that sounds were produced.

00:39:45: And sometimes you felt the complexity, an upside down triangle thing again... That completely cerebral thinking-thing is how sound was produced.

00:39:59: I think certain languages may lend themselves more but actually the simplicity within person who's doing practice And it kind of doesn't matter what the language is, It can still be present.

00:40:17: I remember doing a workshop that was earlier this year... Oh!

00:40:22: One of the short course teacher training things when we were talking about language and i said right let's lead a practice with no language just with sound um..and its really interesting piece because that simplicity That purity of understanding Is there within a sound?

00:40:43: So yeah, but we've gone off on to another subject and we shouldn't be doing that.

00:40:50: We'll go back.

00:40:50: what can...we come back and talk about sound the sounds of level three.

00:40:55: Episode

00:40:57: two!

00:41:00: Let's get that scheduled.

00:41:04: What a wonderful session.

00:41:05: do you want to add something more?

00:41:08: one last sentence per person?

00:41:12: I just like say Thank you, Ariane.

00:41:14: It's just a pleasure to meet your fellow traveller and somebody who... Yeah there is such richness of understanding And it's just the joy to be able to share this space with you.

00:41:25: So thankyou.

00:41:27: You're very welcome.

00:41:28: I really enjoyed it.

00:41:30: There was one thing that i wanted to add because we were talking about the pyramid down.

00:41:41: We had the heart mudra And I just wanted to share that.

00:41:44: one of my, the things that I never forgot is... ...I have two Chinese teachers especially because I don't want more.

00:41:53: Because i don't wanna get caught up in the information.

00:41:55: and these are for me really too.

00:41:58: So it's teacher Li Yongxia.

00:41:59: and Li YongXiao was all the teachers at the center.

00:42:03: The other teachers Xie Shihuan.

00:42:09: They told me when they started teaching in the center for all the teachers, before always started with a kidney practice or like an hour.

00:42:25: And your legs are straight and you only go up-and down which is pretty intense physical.

00:42:36: And so all the teachers, they counted like till ten and then the other teacher on them.

00:42:41: The other teachers.

00:42:42: if there are underteachers you're just standing here for a long time.

00:42:46: but from me it was yes They did that because whatever is going to happen in the center Whatever intense what's gonna be What I saw or felt?

00:42:57: They were always in connection with their Mingmen.

00:43:01: They will always ground It Essence information and not in the information of like for example pain or fear, Or whatever.

00:43:12: what was possible to be available?

00:43:16: Be there in the center.

00:43:17: So all that Information that was going to be like that they pulled it already back Yeah because of their preparation.

00:43:27: so not good or full-to-ate versus but the preparation Was getting there via Mingmen, via the kidney exercise.

00:43:38: And that really impressed me like... The importance of That part before you do anything well-like the scale of the center.

00:43:53: What a lovely closing word with a really big cliffhanger.

00:43:57: I would say

00:44:00: We need to make sure that your details are on this podcast so people can find you as well, just put that one in there.

00:44:07: That's

00:44:07: okay!

00:44:09: Thank you very much.

00:44:10: thank for listening and see you next week.