Episode 9 - What is Consiciousness

00:00:00: Welcome to Chigong Academy's podcast for this week.

00:00:03: We have a special guest here, Jeremy!

00:00:06: Welcome, Jeremy and

00:00:10: John.

00:00:11: So do you like to tell us something about it?

00:00:14: Just a few words.

00:00:15: who are we doing?

00:00:19: Wow okay thank you very much for having me on the podcast.

00:00:22: by the way I am an ancient chigong teacher.

00:00:27: i come from the UK.

00:00:30: I've been teaching Qigong for about more than fifteen years, i suppose.

00:00:37: I started Qigung thirty-five years ago as a reaction to incredible stress in my life and then after about ten cheeky all on my own, I then decided it was time to start teaching other people.

00:00:53: So started a class randomly and people started turning up.

00:00:56: And that's how my teaching career began.

00:00:58: in those days there were no teachers the UK.

00:01:00: There is only one actually you know.

00:01:01: i went to his classes and uh...I couldn't find any other ones.

00:01:04: so just thought well might aswell begin or get some people come join me!

00:01:08: That has been ever since.

00:01:09: really I'm waving my arms around at Tuesday, nine thirty in the morning.

00:01:14: Come and

00:01:14: have a go!

00:01:16: And so people had been doing that for awhile...for few years now My journey has been one through....I started with what's called People's Chigun.

00:01:27: In fact, before that I did yoga and then I did Tai Chi for a few years.

00:01:32: And neither of those particularly caught my fancy!

00:01:35: So then Chigong really really captivated me when i started doing some people's forms the place where everybody begins with budwant gin and then moved on to medical Qigong, which I studied with a school called the International Institute of Medical Qigung.

00:01:51: Which was great fun!

00:01:52: And that's learning how to use qigong as a healing tool really... ...with very specific exercises or diagnostic techniques one-to-one stuff.... along and that everything else kind of went out the window.

00:02:06: I became such a sort of Shenang fan, but i've never really changed!

00:02:10: And uh...I'm still teaching in same forms as I learned you know from teacher from Hawaii another teacher from Yugoslavia all sorts of weird places one for Holland eventually become myself with Chinese teachers.

00:02:25: here we are today just going to make last little comment before turning back which is taken sort of a slightly interesting turn, I suppose in that i've based so much on the physicality of Qigong over the years and i've come to this kind of moment where i think to myself wow qigong is a fantastic tool it's great but there's so much more to it than that.

00:02:50: And so over search for, I don't know.

00:03:04: Enlightenment?

00:03:06: Like you know spirituality whatever it is something else that goes beyond that.

00:03:10: and so whilst Chigung now presents the most amazing platform on which to kind of keep my health rested as it were i then sort of tried to go up another level and find out what happens beyond that.

00:03:24: all right that sounds so relevant.

00:03:28: we've had conversations this weekend And I'm still unsure whether i actually want to be part of Jinengchi-Gung.

00:03:37: Because there's kind of what is Jinengchigun, because it's a label that's given to a process and Actually...I am more interested in What It Does For You Than What We Call It.

00:03:50: Ah, absolutely.

00:03:51: I get that totally John and thats why i find as i practice now there's bits of medical chigung sticking out the edges.

00:04:00: I've actually written a book which im just about to publish in a couple months time lets say.

00:04:09: Can you hold it up?

00:04:11: Tell us what it is.

00:04:12: No, I can't because it's on my computer!

00:04:14: But essentially... Essentially what i decided to do was take all of the stuff that i'd learned from The Five Elements and have a look at how it fits into Shenenji Gong or all the other way around how Shenenjigong fits in the five elements you know?

00:04:27: Because everything is piled up on top of everything else.

00:04:29: And so i just thought oh yeah there are so many commonalities here you know, common ground that I can no longer see the difference between them.

00:04:36: And so yeah i'm kind of going in same mode as you.

00:04:39: You know it's not really important what label is.

00:04:41: It's important about how it helps you Really?

00:04:44: Yeah absolutely.

00:04:47: So What Is She Going For You?

00:04:48: When Somebody Asks You What Is she Gone Jeremy?

00:04:52: It's

00:04:53: The Thing All These Things.

00:04:55: Keep That In Mind Right?

00:04:56: It'S THE THING THAT SAVE MY LIFE.

00:04:59: Okay Why Should I Do Stuff?

00:05:01: For example, when you want to invite people like okay that's saved your life but how can it save my life?

00:05:08: or... You know what I mean?

00:05:09: Where is the range between.

00:05:11: Yeah no completely and God!

00:05:15: It just sounds like- And

00:05:16: maybe one more sorry

00:05:17: How

00:05:18: did it save your live?

00:05:20: Okay good well That's it i'm gonna.

00:05:23: i. it's terrible now because i'm plugging all of my products here on your podcast.

00:05:28: It was so important to me that I decided to make a documentary about it.

00:05:31: And because there's not much out there about Qigong and you know, i'm sure all of you guys have exactly the same experience people say... So what do you do?

00:05:39: You say..I teach Qigung!

00:05:40: And they go

00:05:40: huh?!

00:05:44: And so thats is why I thought come on I've just got.

00:05:46: try spread the word little bit more.

00:05:48: see if I can wake up few more peoples who knows what its doing?

00:05:53: And my cheat code for Chigomi is Chinese yoga.

00:05:57: I say to people, chinese yoga and they go oh okay i get that you know

00:06:03: what he said correct?

00:06:05: no not really but it's a shorthand dialing in To You Know Get People Into The Right Place Quite Quickly So They Can Understand Alright so your gonna move Your Body.

00:06:15: It Comes From China.

00:06:16: Yeah Okay Then No Justice At All But at least its stops the conversation of who wants to go.

00:06:24: And why did it save my life?

00:06:26: I had a

00:06:26: really,

00:06:26: really toxic job.

00:06:28: The most toxic job working in the city of London as a foreign exchange broker drinking.

00:06:34: you know everything that goes on with kind of like A Crazy City Life...the Wolf Of Wall Street!

00:06:39: That kind.

00:06:41: And I was on the way to a complete breakdown, total break down.

00:06:47: So i needed something to look after my body with and i tried yoga didn't fit.

00:06:52: try.

00:06:52: tai chi loved it but It seemed too refined...i always make difference between like a shire horse one that pulls the cart along entire cheese, this kind of a bit nervous racehorse.

00:07:11: And I find Qigong as much like sort of maybe a donkey or a cart horse.

00:07:17: you know it's solid good thing that you can get into and look after.

00:07:21: so yeah That was my idea is that Qigun really felt like coming home to me.

00:07:28: It really felt the things put back on my path.

00:07:32: So why would do?

00:07:35: Any number reasons but I think the thing that brings most people sadly, is a feeling something's not quite right in their life.

00:07:45: They don't have enough energy they don't stillness and centeredness there just too much chaos going on.

00:07:55: so my life was chaos and Qigong brought me back it like being at eye of storm.

00:08:03: you know, suddenly the storm was raging around me but I wasn't being affected by the storm anymore.

00:08:10: So i had a really curious experience of starting doing Qigong and then after about six months of doing it...I said to my wife ,you know, ''I think I have to quit work''.

00:08:20: And she said great do-it!

00:08:22: We've got a mortgage we've got two children.

00:08:25: what the hell?

00:08:25: You know how are we going to manage

00:08:27: that?''.

00:08:27: She said just do it !

00:08:28: Do It

00:08:29: !!

00:08:29: And I found out I was able go into the office with the chaos that had been going on, there was still going around me and sit quietly in the office to just watch the whole sort of chaotic scene unfolding.

00:08:40: And find out I wasn't being affected by it anymore!

00:08:43: That's a really crucial moment for me... It is like sitting under the platform at rush hour or tube station watching everybody running by jumping onto trains and you're just watching them go by saying ok doesn't bother me any more i don't have to panic And so that's why it saved my life, and I think the kind of sensation a lot people come to Qigong with is this chaos mode.

00:09:08: How do i sort it?

00:09:09: The last thing that often brings people to qi gong... ...is that that chaos mode has eventually tipped into illness of some sort.

00:09:17: It might be physical illness but very often its mental illness as well.

00:09:22: So we talk a lot about mental illness these days.

00:09:25: There are thousand new mental illnesses We never knew when we were young.

00:09:31: I think it's just a scale of, from deep depression to hyper-crazyness.

00:09:37: and where do you sit on that scale?

00:09:40: Can you get somewhere near the middle bit?

00:09:42: if your are edging out either side or other side?

00:09:44: You need something to help bring back into the middle.

00:09:47: So i think Qigong is the tool.

00:09:50: using the buddhist idea It brings us in the Middle Way The Middle way for our mind and body.

00:09:58: We want to talk about consciousness today.

00:10:01: And

00:10:02: how would you describe the situation where we are recognized that you have to change something?

00:10:10: Where he said in this office, I just imagine that they're seen and it's all rushy here there, blah-blah-blAH!

00:10:17: You sit there.

00:10:18: How do you describe that state at heart as maybe differentiate from consciousness?

00:10:29: well I can't say that i had any extraordinary opening.

00:10:38: It wasn't just one particular moment where I suddenly thought, ''I'm going to die!

00:10:42: I have to do something about

00:10:43: it!''.

00:10:44: So it was not quite as simple.

00:10:51: but also at that time as well, books were popping up like Celestine Prophecy and things like that which we're just helping us to kind of slightly think in different ways.

00:11:01: And so I didn't have one moment.

00:11:02: you know this is it!

00:11:04: You Have To Change...I had a sort of slow dawning.

00:11:08: So i think that happens for a lot of people.

00:11:11: sure People do hit these brick walls where suddenly something gives and something has to change.

00:11:21: one of my colleagues, a lady called Dr Rosie Daniel she used to always say you know we're very good at coping with one crisis in our life but if a second crisis comes along hot on its heels.

00:11:32: that's when your body starts to really struggle and I've seen that with so many of my one-to-one clients over the years.

00:11:39: You know they'd say... My dad died!

00:11:42: And i was just kind.

00:11:43: getting over that when i lost my job caused me problems.

00:11:50: And so, and people often don't even aren't able to identify that moment when something else piled on top of something else.

00:11:58: but we sit down in a one-to-one talk about it you know?

00:12:01: People say the most extraordinary things when they tell their stories is incredible!

00:12:05: You know... They said did I tell you about time where my husband left me?

00:12:11: then after that i lost my job.

00:12:14: how could not have told?

00:12:15: but you know the people just we get on with our lives don't we?

00:12:23: and so that was it.

00:12:23: I was getting on with my life, So i didn't have one particular moment where I felt a shift in consciousness.

00:12:30: The One Particular Moment Where I Felt A Shift In Consciousness Was With John!

00:12:36: I Don't Think It Was Anything To Do With John, I'll Happy You!

00:12:41: John And I Went On Retreat With Our Chinese Teachers Up to Samye Ling in Scotland, a beautiful retreat centre up in Scotland.

00:12:49: And one evening just on completely unusual and normal standing Qigong session I had this moment where i became the consciousness of the universe.

00:13:04: Wow that was pretty crazy moment!

00:13:07: I was just standing there quietly amongst you know twenty other people all doing same thing as me having a quiet moment and then suddenly the entirety of the universe opened up before me.

00:13:20: How the hell does that feel like?

00:13:23: Extraordinary, just the most extraordinary thing!

00:13:26: And it's happened again a few times over the years but you know this was the first time and it was really incredible if i could describe it for you... It was like the opening scene of Star Wars where suddenly you sort see all the planets and stars in this kind of vastness.

00:13:43: I was just in the vastness of it all.

00:13:46: And, and... It's kind like wow!

00:13:47: i am The Universe you know?

00:13:50: I Am God.

00:13:51: this extraordinary moment.

00:13:53: Normally what happens at that extraordinary moment is people get locked up They are put away You know In a sort for somebody who puts your straight jacket and takes you away But only lasted about five or ten minutes Something Like That.

00:14:08: Then as our ego loves to do I'm standing there in this moment of complete universality.

00:14:15: Wow and i could sort hear the universe, this kind of noise that's almost like a rushing wind!

00:14:23: And then suddenly my ego mind said to me what happens if we fall in?

00:14:29: Then suddenly bing all gone.

00:14:31: you know it was going shh!

00:14:33: The whole moment is coming down.

00:14:35: but oh why did you have to do

00:14:36: that?!

00:14:36: I was just really enjoying I would say that extraordinary moment of universality, i feel it again from time to time when im in nature.

00:14:54: Sometimes in my practice, I've had it happen at the most inconvenient moment of you know, lift your porchy down and you're just pushing.

00:15:01: And then suddenly everything comes to a stop.

00:15:04: You'll think that's not moving anymore!

00:15:07: Why should i move any more?

00:15:09: What is the purpose for me now?

00:15:11: Who wants to

00:15:12: move?!

00:15:14: That's all.

00:15:15: there are moments where time has stopped, the universe stopped... Your body stops breathing.

00:15:24: it's beautiful, it looks lovely.

00:15:26: And then eventually somewhere along the way you think ah maybe I can move again and...and it keeps going.

00:15:31: but so its little patches of this kind of universality if you like that um..that i suppose i hope i could pull together over practice.

00:15:46: y'know come find more time?

00:15:49: This is what's actually happening less interest in doing practice more interested just sitting and being.

00:15:58: And so those moments seem to be stitching themselves together, more frequently I suppose but there's still massive great gaps.

00:16:08: they're it i wouldn't like to tell you that It's all just universal energy.

00:16:13: for me is not You know?

00:16:14: Its just occasional moment where comes together when think oh thats lovely.

00:16:23: It's kind of fascinating to me because I can relate those moments in practice that suddenly it is like you stop existing.

00:16:34: And one other thing, and i'm sure you've heard this when You'd been working with people we're into the deeper practices.

00:16:41: they go.

00:16:41: its as if I stopped existing...and it was frightening!

00:16:46: And then the question is what part has frightened or terrified?

00:16:49: Oh yeah thats a bit which still exists.

00:16:53: That's a legal mind popping up.

00:16:56: Yeah, and I think the thing that i love about this is my sense is anybody can experience it at any point but quite often only happens just for turning of breath or blink of an eye.

00:17:12: And that idea of extending makes a lot of sense.

00:17:14: But I want to ask you something... I was listening to somebody who has quite alot stuff online jigong and taiji, things.

00:17:23: And there was an argument he was making that consciousness only exists in relation to...and I thought that was really interesting because for me it's kind of defining consciousness but in a particular place.

00:17:39: so the argument would be if you go from wuji or emptiness to taiji.

00:17:44: Taiji is the space where consciousness comes into existence as now this creative force goes on between.

00:17:53: That's not the consciousness you're talking about, is it?

00:17:56: No.

00:17:57: And I do tend to agree...I get what your saying there John!

00:18:00: ...I think that I've been doing a little bit of Dr Pang's work though.

00:18:05: he was founder of Shening Chigung and i'm still trying to understand The Mechanisms because He tries To Get Very Very Clear and Scientific About the Separate Parts Of It and this very kind of

00:18:17: broad

00:18:18: brush sweep of an idea which is almost the same vibration as the universe.

00:18:27: They're almost parallel to each other, but maybe not exactly parallel to one another and that if we can raise our consciousness at a level of the universe then we vibrate it in the same way.

00:18:39: so there's this mechanism Eunti where consciousness goes between.

00:18:46: perhaps something like.

00:18:48: those are very difficult theories.

00:18:53: don't translate one into English, that's for sure.

00:18:55: And so I'm trying to kind of like pick my way through understanding what he is really on about.

00:18:59: but then i came up with a completely crass rubbish idea of cloud computing.

00:19:06: you know...I am one computer consciousnesses the cloud and EUNT as tool which connects those things together..i do not think it does any justice at all ..but it gave me some shreds in an idea and universal consciousness.

00:19:25: And perhaps you are a spark of the universe, but you're constantly into interaction with it... But maybe that what your suggesting there is as your localised consciousness ...and the Universal Consciousness That Are Not Exactly The Same But Are Almost The Same.

00:19:46: Something Like That.

00:19:49: What We'Re Still Talking About There Is Duality Aren't We?

00:19:52: your consciousness, which is an interesting idea.

00:19:56: And I think you've hit something really important there that anybody who's trying to explain it is going to be explaining it from a perspective.

00:20:04: so therefore they're not

00:20:06: ever going to able to explain because all you are doing is like you're peering in through the window of big house and trynna explain everything thats in the Big House.

00:20:16: Yeah very good exactly like that!

00:20:18: And words just never do don't?

00:20:21: No, I mean words are so pathetic really.

00:20:25: But at the same time we

00:20:26: need to give people... yeah too explain that there's so much here!

00:20:33: That's it.

00:20:33: and then the answer is nothing i can do to help you.

00:20:36: You have to do it yourself.

00:20:39: Oh you just shot yourself in the foot there?

00:20:40: So sorry!

00:20:44: Yeah don't come to me i'm useless.

00:20:45: i'm no good for your tool.

00:20:48: That's the problem.

00:20:49: Of course, isn't it?

00:20:49: I mean because you know every sort of guru in the entire world is out there and they're all trying to sort of poke you in certain directions And stimulate you.

00:20:57: but ultimately if your really a good guru You should be pushing people away telling them do yourself for God sakes, you know.

00:21:04: But so many people want help to learn how to do It.

00:21:07: just think well, no i can't help me...I could Just keep on talking until eventually YOU get worn-out and you Think I Can only Do this Myself when you think bingo at last.

00:21:17: yeah I'd just like to lean back a little bit into the Dr.

00:21:21: Tang thing, because recently we've done some translations of The Guiding Principles Of Zheneng

00:21:28: and

00:21:30: there's few other bits and pieces in the paper he wrote on the aspects or the states of matter—the name is gone.

00:21:40: that's horrible it shouldn't have been gone!

00:21:43: And i find it fascinating when you start environment that Dr Pan came up with all of these things and then the way he had to express stuff.

00:21:53: And when we came across this piece about everything was viewed from a perspective of dialectical materialism, historical materialism... sorry Marxism!

00:22:08: where everything is considered in material terms.

00:22:10: and then you see what Dr.

00:22:11: Pandig redefined the concept of materialism to make it so much bigger, there's so much more than this but it will still fit into this box.

00:22:21: um...and you start to kind of twig to how again as a human operating in a particular society he actually found roadmaps that he could draw for people.

00:22:37: Yeah, it is interesting that because we don't do anything different in Western science either We're constantly digging deeper.

00:22:43: Deeper lower You know now?

00:22:44: We have to look for the Higgs boson.

00:22:45: Now we have to go beyond that.

00:22:47: and exactly in the same way He's doing exactly the same thing.

00:22:50: you know.

00:22:50: he's trying to go through go through Go through constantly find new ways to go to deeper levels but ultimately in his own theory talks about About when you want Chi which is there.

00:23:05: I Forgive me for my analogy of how Hunyuan Chi works, but I like the Lego sets as an analogy and eventually you know when You get your Lego set.

00:23:13: You get down to the tiniest little piece.

00:23:15: It's one by one-by-one The one that peace that you always stand on in your child's bedroom That goes through the heel of your foot.

00:23:24: it can't be destroyed is what?

00:23:26: One of the strongest things they tie universe, you know, you can't crush one Of those little lego pieces ever.

00:23:33: So that is the first building block, and that's what Hunyuan Entity is.

00:23:36: You can't get any further than the smallest part but then you have to keep on describing the direction to get to the smallest path And we don't have tools to measure it.

00:23:46: We haven't got ways to even conceive of it yet.

00:23:49: But exactly as you say Dr Pang is constantly opening another curtain and open an other one and look deeper.

00:23:58: The question is... He ever get there?

00:24:02: and I doubt he can.

00:24:03: I don't think any of us can, but that's the point!

00:24:06: The whole dualism play will always have a new level to it.

00:24:13: Nobody would be able say... That is the end!

00:24:17: And we've done tic finished because this isn't the nature of dualism.

00:24:22: so dualism will always find a new layer for you to look at.

00:24:25: So I love it, yeah sure build the CERN nuclear collider then build ten more that are better and better!

00:24:31: You're never going to find an answer just gonna find more questions.

00:24:36: Yeah but doesn't also reflect what you were saying about...you came to Genang.

00:24:41: there was something here which meant keep exploring.

00:24:50: I've had people in the morning session who have been coming to their morning practice that they do for significantly longer than there has ever been any other Qigong class.

00:24:58: They say, but thing is every single day's different and i don't understand how every single days are different.

00:25:04: That because everyday is different And on

00:25:11: the same cloud.

00:25:13: Yeah, I mean not.

00:25:14: they're repeating the Qigong process and being completely focused in Qigun process.

00:25:19: there's an aspect of consciousness as an aspect to awareness.

00:25:23: There is an aspect finding those small bits of Lego

00:25:28: with pain or without?

00:25:31: Wither Without Pain Exactly!

00:25:32: You know, with or without pain preferably a little bit of pain because then you notice them.

00:25:36: That's

00:25:40: how we grow.

00:25:41: But that is an interesting direction, I would say when people struggle or maybe hardly find the difference between today and tomorrow because then it directs more into a way of perception.

00:26:00: And what is perception in comparison to consciousness?

00:26:03: Is this step before next to it, or how you both would describe that?

00:26:11: Where we want to start.

00:26:15: We're both sitting here looking at each other going You Start.

00:26:17: No, You Start.

00:26:19: It's your podcast.

00:26:22: I've gone off even more now!

00:26:27: I think perception is the reality Or its framework that we absorb Observe Reality Through.

00:26:39: And so as such, the question is and again I'm going to lean back into Dr.

00:26:45: Pang one of the aims that he has within Chigong Is To Change The Nature Of Our Awareness So We Move From A Place Of Being Trapped Within

00:26:56: Our

00:26:57: Frameworks Of Understanding.

00:26:59: It's A Place For Being More Expensive And Able To Listen To Each Other.

00:27:03: And i think That You Know Certainly In My Experience in that, you know every week should feel the same.

00:27:13: Every day I go to work it should feel The Same.

00:27:15: Every time i get at my car It Should Feel The Same and it means That You Don't Create Space To Notice Anything Different.

00:27:22: And That Is Like The Trapped Perspective.

00:27:25: That's like The Normal Place!

00:27:28: That'S Like The...I'm Just Pushing The Wheel Around In Order To Get Somewhere But I don'T Really Know Where Im Going but I Am Gonna Go On Holiday This Summer as a reward for pushing the wheel around this whole year.

00:27:41: That's not the Qigong state to me, The Qigeng states more about having yes you're pushing in the wheel round.

00:27:49: Yes You are going through emotions and living your life but with larger awareness of what is happening so that you can't be trapped by the process.

00:27:58: So hold it away which is fundamentally useful But that is the expansion of perspective as well.

00:28:08: So my answer is no, there was no difference.

00:28:13: Oh very good!

00:28:16: Jeremy?

00:28:17: Wow I suppose we'll have to take the alternative view then won't you?

00:28:21: They're absolutely the same but i'm not going explain why.

00:28:27: Perception yeah it's your personal perspective isn't?

00:28:37: There are so many more levels to it than just, you know the standard kind of worldviews at where and I think that's what Qigong does for us is that You're able to perceive things on a different level when you study qigong because The idea is that the more.

00:28:53: You get into your practice the more you'll be able to access.

00:28:58: I suppose It's like this story.

00:29:00: we hear about our hearing in a certain sort bandwidth range, dogs here much more than us.

00:29:09: They've got a much wider range and I think that when you work with your qigong ,you start to expand your perception as well.

00:29:17: You start to understand things.

00:29:19: Well the first thing That tend to find is that you stop listening to your body which Is really interesting because i can't remember A time where didn't listen To my body.

00:29:29: it's very odd.

00:29:32: I literally can't remember it because i didn't listen to as well.

00:29:35: It's trying to get you know, and wasn't listening To my body at all?

00:29:38: And then suddenly one day i suddenly started thinking what's going on there?

00:29:42: You know just this morning i sneezed.

00:29:44: now suddenly thought hang a minute What's that all about?

00:29:46: why did he sneeze must be something.

00:29:48: do the dust?

00:29:49: no whatever it was.

00:29:50: you Know an everything About My Body is now that I listen to and around me, i'm much more aware of how things are changing.

00:29:59: How other people respond?How other people

00:30:02: change?".

00:30:03: And that is a refinement that's come with working with Chigung over the years...and also like meditation and things.

00:30:11: So I think that perception is a very personalised thing.

00:30:14: As John said, it's part and parcel of the filter system through which you observe to connect with everything around you.

00:30:35: Dr Pang talks about it quite a lot when he talks everything around you, but also You can use it to kind of...you know.You really hone your perception To start to understand the structure Of The Universe as well and so some people have different perceptions to others.

00:31:08: I mean everybody's perception is different But Some People Have Different Abilities In Their Perception.

00:31:13: They Can Build Up And They Can Start To Perceive Things in A Different Way.

00:31:18: You Hear About People Who Have Extraordinary Vision they Can See For Long Long Distances or people who can see in a kind of like you know microscopic way.

00:31:26: That's the kind of shift of perception.

00:31:28: I think so, i think we have A very standardized set Of rules that were given and you Can actually use qigong to expand your perception

00:31:38: Which means perception is The same as consciousness?

00:31:41: Ah okay

00:31:42: um what's the original question?

00:31:44: that was the original Question.

00:31:45: yes right yeah went off there.

00:31:47: no problem

00:31:48: i Think consciousness drives everything.

00:31:50: i could think consciousness Is the foundation of everything but perception is a function of consciousness.

00:31:56: I don't say they're exactly interchangeable, i think it's the function of Consciousness.

00:32:00: all

00:32:01: right when you want to.

00:32:03: or would you agree that you can train perception like muscle?

00:32:10: I'd say

00:32:11: yeah

00:32:12: Yeah absolutely.

00:32:13: But I wouldn't also say too much there this concept of idao chi dao and You Can use your perception and use your consciousness to overly focus on things.

00:32:25: And give you a cheat of things that may actually be restrictive too, so if I've just been on the trip out from Netherlands... ...and I don't travel as well because i find myself worrying more about what will happen?

00:32:42: Will it get me in the right place at the airport when my car isn't there for

00:32:48: me?!

00:32:49: so what I'm doing there is i'm using my perspective, my ideas and i'm overly feeding the things that cause worry within myself.

00:32:58: And I think that within Qigong you know...I should be getting better at this because I've been practicing qigong but actually there's bits that I can feel that I'm getting worse at it.

00:33:09: um uh..and it kind of completely ties in with what you were saying about.

00:33:16: we can notice but we need to hold it so much more likely, So that doesn't

00:33:23: build...

00:33:25: Do you remember?

00:33:27: I'm sure this is one of the ones where we were on together Jeremy.

00:33:29: Where i think teacher Lou said You have an idea and you built a little house for her And put a fence around there and make your home.

00:33:39: It's like that!

00:33:40: I can find myself building lots of houses for silly ideas That don't want me holding onto anymore.

00:33:47: Interesting, so to view completely off the subject of Zhenei Qigong and go around another thing which I'm quite interested in.

00:33:55: It's a Russian philosopher called Vadim Zeland And he has this thing called Reality Transurfing.

00:34:04: One of things that he always says is there are no mountains.

00:34:09: That's one of his little sort-of watch words.

00:34:11: There Are No Mountains This kind idea.

00:34:14: you're the one who builds the mountains And I like that.

00:34:17: You know, it's absolutely right.

00:34:18: what you're saying is on your journey to the Netherlands... ...you built yourself twelve mountains to go over where they didn't exist at all!

00:34:27: There are no mountains and you're the one making them.

00:34:30: It's so true!

00:34:31: What we talk about in that sort of thing about perception.. ..is your perception of what will the journey be?

00:34:38: He has very much an opinion that nothing should ever help.

00:34:43: So he talks an awful lot about importance and it says, you know if your giving something important then its going to go wrong.

00:34:50: It's gonna be bad.

00:34:50: Its not right.

00:34:51: You know nothing should ever have any importance.

00:34:54: And that of course goes flowing all the way back into Taoism or things like that where you just have hold everything incredibly lightly.

00:35:00: Be light water let it flow.

00:35:03: But how can we do this?

00:35:04: I want throw one other term in there Perception consciousness and mountain thing which also can be I would say yeah related to kind of trust, trust the universe.

00:35:19: Trust yourself self-trust.

00:35:21: how

00:35:22: or what are your thoughts about that?

00:35:26: Can you trust the Universe?

00:35:27: Absolutely not!

00:35:29: But YOU're in the universe so...can you trust

00:35:32: yourself?!

00:35:33: Yes no!

00:35:35: That's my starting point.

00:35:37: is that um i never used.

00:35:44: I never used to feel safe, i don't think.

00:35:46: You know for an awful long time and when i started doing Qigongi i really started feeling safe.

00:35:54: And bizarrely you know...I do trust that i dont have mountains..and allow the universe flow these days!

00:36:06: I think if you label it as a bad decision then its going to be Good bad, good bad.

00:36:24: No yes!

00:36:25: Good bad black white you know whatever then it's constantly causes your problems.

00:36:29: but if you just have a structure that says okay?

00:36:33: Okay?

00:36:33: Okay?!

00:36:35: You don't have half as many problems well I don't.

00:36:39: I find that my problems are very few and far between these days because you know, i don't really label them as problems anymore.I Don't see them as being problems And As long You don't See Them as Being Problems.

00:36:51: if Everything is an opportunity to learn and sure then life Is Suddenly Much Easier?

00:36:56: So Somehow I Find Myself trusting the universe more and More especially when it Comes To Things like Travel back from Portugal in my old van.

00:37:05: And that was a very interesting journey, you know?

00:37:07: Uh and I say interesting... You know i broke down several times!

00:37:11: And I just thought well I have to sort this out..I have to deal with it but I didn't see there's being a problem.... I just saw her as saying okay this is what's happening now.

00:37:19: And I saw myself arriving back in the UK at a certain time and date, and sure enough it happened.

00:37:28: And so yeah, I just sort of drifted across Europe and found myself back in the UK.

00:37:44: Thought there really were no mountains.

00:37:46: it's amazing you know?

00:37:48: Even the Pyrenees didn't turn out to be mountains which is an old van they normally are but i just sort-of drifted gently up them and drifted gentle down.

00:37:57: then everything was fine without being stressed about that.

00:38:01: if you think yourself This clapped out old van will never make it over the mountain.

00:38:06: Then I'm sure as hell, It won't.

00:38:08: but you know...it did and i just thought well that'll be fine Just go slow everything would be cool And this clapped-out body Will Never Make it to another Christmas.

00:38:16: But it does!

00:38:17: You Know?

00:38:18: And keeps on going very nicely thankyou.

00:38:20: So yeah..I've given up mountains now ..and I have given up judgement As much as I can From time To Time Sure ...You really do get something comes Up BIG You Have to Go.

00:38:31: Wow, how did I miss that?

00:38:34: Gee!

00:38:35: You know...I was just walking across the flat land and suddenly I walked straight into a cliff.

00:38:41: That's a mountain i didn't see And then you have to sit with it find out.

00:38:45: So thats where my consciousness journey takes me A lot these days Which is bumping in something which I didnt expect and sitting With it asking what its here for why its there And what I can learn from it, I suppose.

00:39:03: Then once you've done that becomes less of a mountain and it dissolves.

00:39:08: That's kind of what happens.

00:39:10: All right What would you advise people who never experienced that?

00:39:16: And want to...I'd say gaining self-trust and getting inner peace The ability to stay relaxed even in these challenging situations.

00:39:36: For me, it's taken forty years of looking.

00:39:43: But the thing that I discover is... It's speeding up so much more quickly!

00:39:49: People are coming to their realizations much more quickly but in an interesting way people hitting walls harder and so the acceleration of everything is bringing a breakpoint for them much faster than they did before.

00:40:07: And so the breakpoint for me was something that built over a period of time, and my knowledge built up.

00:40:12: Over A Period Of Time I got to you know it.

00:40:14: So i've had a long time to mature this plan.

00:40:17: But now people are having to jump into This Plan much more quickly in trying figure out.

00:40:22: You Know how To Get There How To Fix Things?

00:40:27: It's a difficult thing!

00:40:29: The first thing is that having a kind of meditation practice of any sort, it's tricky for people who are accelerating at the rate of knots.

00:40:38: And so I think ultimately... ...the first tool is breath work!

00:40:42: That's only way to stop yourself from high speed and slow down with breath because it forces you in your body.

00:40:53: Just one task to concentrate on.

00:40:55: and so for me I do a circular breathing technique, but it doesn't really matter what you Do.

00:40:59: anything will do.

00:41:00: You know.

00:41:00: So we notice the microcosmic orbit in Qigong.

00:41:06: And yeah, you can probably find fifty videos On YouTube that are quite good at about another ten thousand The rubbish.

00:41:11: But you have To choose your teacher wisely i think and then always question Your teacher if im talking rubbish leave Me For heaven's sakes.

00:41:22: So I think probably that the quickest way into it is to learn a breathing technique, just to slow you down and stop you in quietening.

00:41:30: And then when you can get a hold of your brain there are very sort of simple techniques.

00:41:36: when Dwyer used to have one which he called Mind The Gap!

00:41:39: Then i had a very simple technique which was inspired by being at a drive-in movie and you know sitting in the car watching the screen, then these big drops of water falling onto the screen.

00:41:52: I can't see film a windscreen wiper watch bit more of movie another windscreen wiper.

00:41:58: And i kind came up with this idea that you could sit quietly just when thought comes out.

00:42:03: perhaps find some way to brush it off your vision for few moments.

00:42:07: Then try hold silence longer.

00:42:11: Some combination breathing techniques some combination of a kind-of like you know clearing the mind technique just to try and still things for You.

00:42:19: I'm just trying get though that practice for tiny bit longer, you know.

00:42:24: Just to try spend five minutes doing it ten minutes.

00:42:27: Doing it build It up a little bit.

00:42:29: do a Qigong exercise?

00:42:31: Do something.

00:42:31: there's plenty of them on YouTube time.

00:42:34: go through The Qigun Academy.

00:42:35: this tons are great teachers once a week, an hour twice-a-week.

00:42:45: An hour every day.

00:42:47: well that's you know great.

00:42:48: I mean i've got little thing called my warm up exercises which is just fifteen minutes of exercise and uh...and I say to people do then everyday if we can't do nothing else Just Do That Fifteen Minutes because it just resets You.

00:43:02: So for me its Little Interventions in A Crazy World.

00:43:07: And Then You Try To Build Out From These Tiny Techniques.

00:43:12: I'm feeling really, really stressed.

00:43:14: I am just going to do pulling down and draw the heavens down ten times until i feel calm And then we'll see what's happening in my day.

00:43:23: You know...and it is self-awareness.

00:43:26: So there was one last thing that I want tell you about which was the Brahma Kumaris.

00:43:31: we were sitting in the canteen chatting away, I was interviewing a lady there and then suddenly there's noise on the tannoy.

00:43:39: And it went big bonging.

00:43:40: dong you know i sort of said to her oh what's that?

00:43:43: She said every hour That plays in our canteen It plays out throughout our entire building.

00:43:49: What we do is just sit quietly for a minute.

00:43:51: Do you mind if we do that?

00:43:53: I said no!

00:43:53: No thats nice You know.

00:43:55: so We had a minute silence.

00:43:56: Then we just went back talking really nicely Really lovely at work place.

00:44:01: To have that stop take a breath moment.

00:44:05: and so then I got my digital watch, it went ping on the hour or vibrated at that time.

00:44:14: It just was enough to make me think oh there's the top of an hour i'm going stop for a second and take a breathe and settle back about what im doing.

00:44:24: So had my watch do the Brahma Kumari thing Plum Village, Titch Nut Hun and I went to one of his talks.

00:44:37: His merch was outside And you could buy a swatch watch instead Of having one two three four five.

00:44:44: It just had no written on the watch face.

00:44:50: So every time he looked at your watch what's that?

00:44:54: Yeah so it is little tools like That i think as best way To get into crazy world Like this.

00:45:01: Yeah, sure.

00:45:02: Go and spend a month in the Buddhist monastery.

00:45:05: great but not many people can do that you know.

00:45:07: so You have to find little strategies to pull together from where wherever And just bring them into your own personal basket.

00:45:15: Then hold all those things.

00:45:16: Try remember use them Find some trigger like a note on your desk That says stop.

00:45:25: Oh, that's a really nice list of stuff we can do.

00:45:31: Right?

00:45:32: So for myself I enjoy ice bathing but it is hard to do in the summer.

00:45:35: so therefore your things are way more approachable.

00:45:41: i would say Or you

00:45:43: could

00:45:44: combine maybe what you're talking about right?

00:45:46: Combine maybe sauna or ice bath everything, qigong whatsoever...

00:45:51: That said its little wind for your body isn't there.

00:45:54: You just have find the winds which work And so I absolutely agree with you.

00:45:58: You know, well what's going to a sauna?

00:46:01: Fantastic because you're just sitting there for an hour quietly stewing away and it is great place.

00:46:06: let your mind go quiet!

00:46:08: Every train journey every bus journeys are opportunity.

00:46:11: if you just breathe quietly sometimes when doing train journeys i do some of the Taoist sounds For my organs There six different sounds.

00:46:21: When trains rattling along.

00:46:22: they can be sitting.

00:46:23: I'm just gonna notice you going ha, but your vibrating your heart Just to kind of like get a little practice in while.

00:46:34: You're sitting on the train rather than sit there thinking did i pay that off yet?

00:46:38: Did i?

00:46:38: how am i Gonna save money on this?

00:46:40: what am i Going To do about That person you know other Than doing those things?

00:46:43: you just find something to shut up Your mind for A Little bit.

00:46:48: so yeah i think it's Like A basket Of tools and that's what you're going so good at, it's so many millions of little tools that you can use.

00:46:56: And just find the ones you like!

00:46:58: It absolutely speaks to me with that line in eight phrases which is E N Y M or Chi which not a single thought worth following but... You need to find the single-thought because until you confine the single though ...you've still got ahead full of stuff.

00:47:12: Yes exactly

00:47:13: The process of finding that single thought.

00:47:15: That in itself can create enough space.

00:47:20: But there's place beyond where maybe once you've come to the single thought, you can then go to no-thought which is kind of the spaces that I think you're referring too here.

00:47:30: And how long does that need to take?

00:47:33: The turning of a breath just notice it.

00:47:35: because in that space all the noise that you carry around with you...you are not feeding yet!

00:47:42: You aren't giving your energy to it.

00:47:44: but at this moment ...I'm going.

00:47:48: Yeah, I was talking to someone over the weekend about you know what do we do as Qigong teachers?

00:47:57: What if he does Qigun practitioners and More more.

00:48:01: my sense is that we create space.

00:48:04: yeah

00:48:05: And i think That's right.

00:48:06: You know that seems To be a theme that's bubbling through this whole conversation just The idea of We Create Space.

00:48:13: It's difficult As A Qigung teacher to create space because your entertaining people online.

00:48:21: And so, you know it I had my teachers who just say right we're gonna meditate for an hour and off they go We all meditate and saying nothing at All but For me.

00:48:29: I think if your paying me money after trying to entertain You like i have To personally get over that?

00:48:33: You Know i have to try and find more space in My classes.

00:48:37: because yeah So i mean i've developed my wednesday class Just for That and i still talk too much of my Wednesday Class.

00:48:44: i Still finish my class and Think shut up Jeremy for god's sakes you know.

00:48:47: But um Yeah some Teachers are Much better than that I feel...I like to guide people where i can and guide people.

00:48:55: So my Wednesday classes are kind of a guided healing meditation, And I try to put space into that as often as I can.

00:49:03: But yeah it's not an easy thing to do To be with Space.

00:49:07: It is NOT natural for us at all!

00:49:10: And so-and its not natural For me you know..i find very difficult to create space in My life.

00:49:17: the reason I teach Qigong is to make sure that i actually makes some space in my life.

00:49:23: It's selfish, you're not doing it for anybody else out there!

00:49:29: Sorry one thing has just come up that I've got to mention.

00:49:32: Jeremy and I recorded a course on body-mind form.

00:49:37: um... That was a few years back ...that wasn't The Weird Infinity Studio where if he turned around and looked into whiteness she fell over because Yeah, and you'll notice that at no point do we have a turn completely away from the camera because you can't cope with not saying but yeah.

00:49:54: That's another story.

00:49:56: But there was a bit of feedback that came back on this And I don't know... You may not seen it.

00:50:00: It just recently come through where The person said these people talk too much.

00:50:07: They obviously don't what they're talking about and if is quite harsh criticism.

00:50:13: And I read it and then he said you know, i went to learn this form over many weeks spending time with a Chinese teacher.

00:50:23: These people just do it completely wrong!

00:50:27: The thing that is really fascinating in the comment... ...is exactly what we've spoken about.

00:50:33: when working online if you go quiet People have lost my connection.

00:50:38: Great

00:50:39: If your going quiet they don't know whats to do.

00:50:42: You're not in the presence physically with people, you're not able to have that level of contact.

00:50:48: So when we work online We need to continue to make noise.

00:50:53: But hopefully I like the idea of Hopefully The Noise I Make is so irrelevant.

00:50:57: Nobody makes any text me notice on it.

00:51:00: They just know he's still there.

00:51:01: Yeah Yeah completely tune out.

00:51:04: i think That's right.

00:51:05: i Think thats exactly It and i think Thats a slightly.

00:51:08: well i've been defensive teaching a technique in a short period of time, you do have to speak.

00:51:19: And I think that the idea with those things is exactly what we really need to get the tools quickly and then learn how to use them over very slow deep quiet... You know?

00:51:31: Period!

00:51:36: Those courses tend to be kindof jumpstart ideas i think.

00:51:43: find the depth within it, get to that moment where you suddenly think I don't have to move anymore.

00:51:48: I am The Universe

00:51:51: which draws the episode to a wonderful closing.

00:51:53: i would say thank you very much Jeremy and John

00:51:59: my pleasure.

00:52:00: Thank You so much for having me here.

00:52:02: all right stay tuned.

00:52:05: we see us next week.